The Plight Of The Purebred

sara

sara

Moderator
Staff member
If anyone is interested. There is a book called "Dog Sense" by John Bradshaw, that is extremely science based (as he is a scientist with some university in the UK who studies dog behaviour, and dogs in general) Fascinating book, and one YOU, Tigerlily should read, You will be as amazed by the book as I am... He goes into evolution, evolution of behaviour, The way dogs think, and how breeding for purebreds and show has created very unhealthy dogs. As well as being as up to date on all scientific research on behaviour and where dogs came from.
 
tigerlily46514

tigerlily46514

Honored Member
OOH! SQUEAL!! (leaves for library) How many times can i 'like' Sara's comment?? hee hee!
THANK YOU!! I've never heard of this book and i am endlessly fascinated by dog behavior, science, and evolution!!
 
DuncansMom

DuncansMom

Well-Known Member
I'll admit I am a huge rescue snob. My car is covered in "Rescue Mom", "Save a Homeless Pet", and "Proud owner of a Rescue Mutt" magnets, and other animal welfare related bumper-stickers. I definitely prefer talking to people who have rescue pets as opposed to ones who went to a breeder. I probably stick my nose up a little bit when I hear "Yea, I got my dog from a breeder" (sometimes followed with: "but he wasn't a good breeder and she has all of these behavioral/health problems")

My parents are also rescue snobs and taught me that it is wrong to buy animals when there are so many in shelters. Our crazy family cat was a rescue (former stray) and completely unique and treated as a beloved member of the family. My mom took me to the animal shelter about once a week from age 2 onwards to visit the animals. I am just starting to realize that my friends' parents never did this, and lots of people have never been to a shelter! My sister and I looooved going to the SPCA when we were little. But one of my best friends recently asked me - "what is a Mutt? What does SPCA mean?" (I spent the rest of the evening showing her all the animals on Petfinder.com and trying to teach her.)

If there is ever a time when there aren't thousands and thousands of animals being euthanized every day because no one adopted them, and NO animals are homeless, only THEN I will be ok with people who want to breed their 2 cute dogs and have a litter of puppies. Sadly, that is extremely unlikely to happen within my lifetime.

tigerlily46514 said:
Me, i'm all about rescue, and do not belong to the group that feign that my dog's background is superior due to a piece of paper. How is that 'snobbery'?

Nor will anyone EVER catch me thinking a dog's value can be put on a piece of paper, the way the AKC beauty contest do, nope!

I do think the issue of dog overpopulation crisis IS seen entirely differently by those who are pro-rescue, and the 80% of all breeders who think, "My two dogs are cute, let's make some litters!" when at least one puppy from each litter ends up homeless. (stats wise).

there is a difference in what a 'snob' is, imo. But, if being passionately pro-rescue,
and VERY pro- NEUTER AND SPAY,
and very concerned about the plight of the purebred (dispite ancedotal stories posted in this thread, the purebreds ARE becoming UNhealthier, links in previous posts)
and having absolutely Zero interest in a dog's registration (which means NOTHING at all about his health),
if focusing on breeding dogs to eradicate health issues rather than focusing on their outer beauty for AKC dog beauty shows,
---------- well, if this mindset, and the urge to educate others who are cranking out litter after litter in their backyards,= makes me a "snob",(?) then i'll wear it proudly!!! WHOOOOOOOOOT!!! WISH THERE WERE EVEN MORE 'SNOBS' (?) LIKE ME!!! If there WERE, backyard breeders would diminish, and the pathetic state of most purebred's health WOULD be heading the other direction. WHOOOOOOOOT!!!
Click to expand...
 
abby_someone

abby_someone

Well-Known Member
DuncansMom said:
If there is ever a time when there aren't thousands and thousands of animals being euthanized every day because no one adopted them, and NO animals are homeless, only THEN I will be ok with people who want to breed their 2 cute dogs and have a litter of puppies. Sadly, that is extremely unlikely to happen within my lifetime.
Click to expand...
I once had a neighbor (than NEVER spayed/neutered he animals) that told me that "with all of the spaying and neutering cats and dogs are going to go extinct". She really believed that and let her animals breed to their heart's content! Can you believe it?????O_o:eek:

OK, yes, I did buy my dog from a breeder, but I have had trouble with dogs picked up from the shelter.:cry:. Many things got broke from several chases through my house to "get the kitty". My heart broke every time I had to return a doggy. I do however have 5 rescued kitties. All of my kitties have been rescued from one bad situation or another. So, I am definitely opposed to getting a shelter animal. Most of my cats have not even made it to the shelter and I have had to pay for vet bills right away. I guess I am saying that I agree with saving a life!!!
 
tigerlily46514

tigerlily46514

Honored Member
Bekah, i so agree!! Nailed it!!!

lOL, Abby, your posts are cute! I'm not sure if you were kidding, when you said you had problems with dogs you got from a shelter, because they chased cats.
Dogs from breeders OR shelters can chase cats, has nothing to do with shelter vs. breeder. (but, maybe you were kidding, lol).

In the future, before you rescue a dog from a shelter, you can have the dog temperment tested to assess his friendliness towards cats.
Or, you can put in your zip code here, and peruse the 1000s and 1000s of animals who are homeless=============>
http://www.petfinder.com/index.html
SEE THE "NO CATS"?? by some dog's names? It's NOT difficult to rescue a dog who IS okay with cats. Just ASK!!!

Here's a thread listing many other popular reasons people 'buy' their best friends:
http://www.dogtrickacademy.com/members/forums/threads/dont-buy-a-dog-not-any-dog-at-all.3109/

and how sad for your neighbor to be so amazingly uninformed. She must not have had access to a computer, a library or even literature from any human society to discover the horrific dog (AND cat) overpopulation crisis in the US, as well as most other countries. She might even still think the earth is flat, who knows? People like that should be ordered to go help at their local shelters!!
 
Anneke

Anneke

Honored Member
I do agree.
Things are different here though. Animals rarely get euthanized here. Only when they have so many problems(physical or mentally) that there is no chance of ever getting better.
But I live in a tiny country compared to the usa and the mentality in keeping pets is so very different here. But people don't think before they get a pet.
They get a cute puppy, and end up taking it to a rescue centre because it became so big:rolleyes: Hey if you get a great dane puppy, IT'S GOING TO BE BIG!!! Or a border collie, because my neighbour has one that is so well behaved and she knows so many tricks. But my dog just distroys the house...
I would like to shout at them that raising and owning a dog takes just as much efford as raising a child!
A friend of mine once told me, your Shane is so good, he always listens. Yeah well, that took me 16 years, to get him to do it and keep doing it! DUH!
Or I went to the dogschool and took a 10 lesson class with my puppy, but it didn't work. He's completely out of control. Talking about a 7 month old dog, that get's 3 10 minute walks a day.
I have had mutts and rescues in the past, 1 purebred toy poodle. We picked him up and were told, he couldn't live with cats, he barked, and didn't listen. He was 5 years old then.
When we brought him home and he met our cat, he did try to chase it. But our cat just hit him on the nose, my mom trained them both to live together. That was one bright little dog! He lived to be 15 years old and helped raise My Shane.
There is talk about having new dog owner take at least one class to learn what their dog needs and how to communicate with their dog. I would love to see that made into a law! It would be such a great step into the right direction.
I must say that I don't go to rescue centres anymore, or look at the websites... I want to take them all home...
I worked in a rescue centre for a short while. But my heart couldn't take it.
 
tigerlily46514

tigerlily46514

Honored Member
Yeah, Bekah, it was a huge shock for me,:eek: too, when i first ever began learning about many of our purebreds....i knew a FEW breeds had been run into the ground,
but had no idea how rampant it was....:cry:
it STILL shocks me...


that link is only ONE part of about six parts of the film "Pedigree Dogs Exposed"

It'd be hard to say, which of the six parts is MOST shocking...
 
bekah1001

bekah1001

Honored Member
The links didnt work for me so I looked it up on youtube and found the full video. I was so pissed of at that one women who said that the ridgebacks puppies without the ridge should be put down. There were tons of things that made me so angry!!! Another is that they bred the Cavalier king spaniels who had the disease ( I forgot what it was called) over 30 times!!!!! 30! Who knows how many puppies are going to be affected!!!! (was that in part six?)
 
tigerlily46514

tigerlily46514

Honored Member
YES! I KNOW! I SO SO SHARE YOUR OUTRAGE! Once you have watched that film, you just can't ever look at many of the show dog breeders ever the same again,:cautious: nor can we overlook what the arbitrary beauty "standards" imposed by the AKC and the UKKC does to some breeds.

it is just a whooole other mindset there,:sick: with those breeding for "show dogs" than the mindset most commonly heard around here on DTA, it's a whoooole other world there....shiver! NOt all, but many breeders who focus on a dog's looks have a whole other way of looking at dogs than we do around here on DTA....
Yeah, and CKSpaniel who WON best in show-------------had health disorders!!!
AND SERIOUS ONES, AT THAT!!
and of course, being a prize winning dog, will be mated and earn TOP DOLLAR for the litters, too, and ppl will proudly hold up their pups, and exclaim, "my dog's mom was a prize winning dog":D while they go to get meds for all the painful disorders their dog has....:cry:


dogs shows are really just beauty pageants.
says nothing about the dogs' HEALTH,
the dog's ability,
or even his ability to function well:eek: , (some breeds are so extremely mutated now
that they can't really run,
give birth without surgery,
or even just BREATHE right!:cry: )
but hey, the dog meets the measurements wanted by the AKC and has the right papers, so reward that breeder, give a prize, and make everyone want to get on the DNA from that prize winning dog,---- the DNA that produced that LOOK in a dog, regardless of whether or not that dog is even HEALTHY!!!

i truly don't get it.
 
Anneke

Anneke

Honored Member
I know:mad: It makes me sooo angry. Those people say they love their breed so much, but what they are doing, is distroying the breed. Like with the german shepherds, bulldogs, cavaliers.

Less severe example, but I think it is relevant: My friend has Golden Retrievers. And they are white. Not the beautifull rich golden brown, no, they are creamy white.
As she wanted to breed her second bitch, she had to do some confirmationshows. One day I went to see her in the ring and brought another friend, who doesn't know much about goldens. So she asked why these goldens were called golden, because all the dogs in the ring were white. So I explained that white is actually not an autenthic color, but because people like it, it is the new golden. Over here you only see white goldens in the confirmation ring. The brown ones are "working" dogs, bred by people who use the dogs for what they were made to do: hunting and retrieving.
This lady, turned out she was a breeder, overheard my explanation, turned around and was quite mad at me. She said white WAS an original color accepted by breedstandards.
I know the breedstandard says any shade of cream and gold, but there are no golden dogs in the showrings anymore. If you want your dog to win, you need it to be very lightcolored, or the judge will just send you out with a low score.

Fortunately, a few titles have been revoked, due to healthproblems. A few years ago I saw a german shepherd win best of breed. He could hardly stand on his feet, had no strenght in his backhand, he stood like he was going to fall over any second. His back was so sloped, I felt sorry for this dog. It is suppesed to be a powerfull breed, but this dog did NOT represent that.
All that , because of a few judges that think a sloped back is beautifull, and breeders just want to win:mad:
 
tigerlily46514

tigerlily46514

Honored Member
Loved your post Anneke, there IS indeed, a maddening aspect to some of what is going on, with way too many breeds of dogs being ruined and their function being reduced
further and further, trying to meet some arbitrary measurements or angles that currently "in" this year for dog beauty shows...:cry:
I so understood how you feel a lil baffled about the same ppl who say they "love" the breed, that they are ruining by using too small of a gene pool and not properly screening the dogs family tree for inheritable diseases, etc. It's weird to ppl like us here on DTA, like most DTA ppl, to try to imagine seeing dogs the way some ppl see dogs....almost hurts my head to try..



wow, fascinating story about the white goldens, i've never ever seen one, had no idea GRs even came in white,
shows what i know. Yeah, a lot of these dog beauty shows, can get caught up in 'fads'. That is how that GSD hip slope came around, was just a fad...that reeeeally got out of control, and then escalated and escalated...
MOST PUREBREDS TODAY
DO NOT LOOK JUST LIKE THAT SAME BREED LOOKED
EVEN 50 TO 1OO YEARS AGO,:eek:
before the extremists nuttery took over too many breeds of dogs....:mad:
before most ppl felt a dog "having papers" was somehow (?) more valuable, and the mass production market was born.


I wonder if i will see these white GRs coming around my area anytime soon...wonder if it will catch on in USA, or maybe it is the thing now for prize winning GRs here, too, no idea. Poor GRs are soooooooooooo prone to cancer, wow, it's heartbreaking, they need to add some new DNA into many of the gene pools being used to crank out GRs...
but, the gene pool is being yet further and further CONDENSED in many GRs...

//"Fortunately, a few titles have been revoked, due to healthproblems. "//

YAY!!! :D wow, i've never heard of this! :eek: What type of show was that, if you know or remember? is probably only over in Europe, europe can be so so more advanced than USA is, in so so many many many ways...

btw, my YAY is NOT that the poor dog is sickened,but that THAT breeder will not be given prizes, and THAT dogs disease-ridden DNA will be less marketable then = less diseased dogs.
 
Anneke

Anneke

Honored Member

My friend is in the middle with the black shirt holding her two goldens. The second dog from the left is mum Brit, the dog at the end on the right is dad Boucheron.

tigerlily46514 said:
//"Fortunately, a few titles have been revoked, due to healthproblems. "//

YAY!!! :D wow, i've never heard of this! :eek: What type of show was that, if you know or remember? is probably only over in Europe, europe can be so so more advanced than USA is, in so so many many many ways...

btw, my YAY is NOT that the poor dog is sickened,but that THAT breeder will not be given prizes, and THAT dogs disease-ridden DNA will be less marketable then = less diseased dogs.
Click to expand...
It was at one of the bigger confirmation shows here in Holland, but I think Crufts in england did the same thing, this year.
 
tigerlily46514

tigerlily46514

Honored Member
i can't find anything (yet) on Crufts revoking any prize
on the basis of the dog's health.
Anneke, did you watch the video we are discussing, "Pedigree Dogs Exposed" ?? It shows some prize winning "best in show" dogs who are riddled with diseases...:cry:

i did however find this from "The Onion" which is joke newspaper:
http://www.theonion.com/articles/dog-breeders-issue-massive-recall-of-07-pugs,2206/
:ROFLMAO: well, i guess it is NOT funny,
as it is a bit too close to the truth...
 
tigerlily46514

tigerlily46514

Honored Member
i can't locate anything about the AKC revoking any prizes, either, on the basis of the dog's health.


but, there are tons of stories about diseased dogs,
or dogs with disorders on their genes,
being given prizes at both AKC and Crufts......:cry: ......it's just a beauty show.
 
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