The Plight Of The Purebred

[tigerlily46514]

No shame on you AT ALL, i was same way as you, i sure was, that is just what i thought, too!! At least we are figuring it out as we go along, right?

We all do the best we can, with what we understand at the time.
(paraphrased quote from Maya Angelou).

I also used to think, "There must be something wrong with the dog if it is in a dog pound."
I used to think, "Purebreds are healthier"
I used to think, "With purebreds, you know what you are getting, if you see the parents, you can get idea what the baby dog wil be like when he grows up." (which is NOT always true, at all, dogs can have babies much unlike themselves, and all dogs, even with in a breed, are individuals.)
I used to think "if i get a rescue dog, i will get a dog who has problems or issues, he will not be 'normal' loving dog."
I once thought, "If i don't raise the dog myself, he won't love me or attach on me as much."
I used to think, "There is no way to get a normal, loving dog, from a dog pound, all THOSE dogs have problems and behave badly."
I used to be completely
COMPLETELY
unaware of the dog overpopulation crisis in USA, and most other countries as well. I had no idea what a profiteering racket the AKC is. I once thought an AKC registration indicates a healthier dog, or one that is not from a puppy mill.
I once believed a dog who had Ch. in front of his name was a healthier superior dog.

I had no idea how inbreeding is damaging the breeds. I just never thought about WHY so many purebreds have so many rampant, sometimes quirky health issues, i just never thought about it.

i once thought ALL those things!! Many many people still do!

and i am too lazy to have puppies, and i like to see how energetic, how hyper, the grown dog will be. I don't care to spend half of a year potty training a baby dog. (adult dogs understand very quickly about potty training). I don't care to ruin my floors or carpetting, car upholstery, furniture or bedding, nor clean them daily.

I don't care for the nipping stage, the chewing destructive stage, the property damage stage, the can't be home alone for long stage, the up all night stage, i'm just too lazy. But, I ADMIRE those ppl who ARE willing to put in that first year raising an infant dog,
but me,
i prefer adult dogs. I know, i know, i am LAZY, let someone else do all the hard work, and just take home adult dog, i know i know, slap me!! ADULT DOGS LOVE YOU JUST AS IF YOU WERE THE ONLY HUMAN HE'S EVER MET.
some of us, think even MORE, cuz these dogs HAVE lived without love before.

but, for those who are brave enough to take home a mysterious puppy, there ARE puppies in rescue, too. Especially in USA, billions of brand new baby dogs to take home. In USA, we kill our leftover dogs that no one wants.

 

[sara]

Someone just posted on my Facebook (I have tons of dog rescuers and transporters on my FB) about 2 different litters of puppies in Ohio needing out of a kill shelter... they didn't get out and were euth'd

Puppies dont always get adopted out either.

 

[Dodge]

my heart is crying out for those two litters of pups
Tigerlily,not lazy at all,very dog responsible I would say ))hug((
Damn,where's that lottery win ))TAP FOOT!!((
(internet keeps chucking me off,better post this quickly)

 

[Lexy88]

I used to think all those things too!

When my old dog died, my toddler Riley was quite small and I didnt think I could cope with TWO babies but I DID want another dog as I lived alone. It was only then that my thoughts took a COMPLETE turn around to what they used to be - so this is only about 8mths ago? Suddenly my thoughts were

I want a dog where I will already knows its personality and 'problems'
I want a dog I can be active with NOW [ie go running]
I dont want to have to go through all the puppy toilet training etc etc
I want to give an unwanted dog a home

Blade was advertised online. He isnt a 'rescue' as such, hes a 'rehome'. His breeder had taken him back from his first home [THATs a responsible breeder imo - one who takes responsibility for all his pups and will take them back and help out with them even years after they have gone to a new home]. Blade was an 18hr drive plus 3hr ferry trip away or a plane flight. I flew up to meet him. He did have some 'issues', just obedience type stuff although he did suffer pretty bad seperation anxiety. He had been raised in a city, I lived a rural life. He hadnt been raised with kids, I had a toddler. ...

He is a wonderful dog who I took a real gamble with, and it all paid off.

 

[Dodge]

I used to think all those things too!

He is a wonderful dog who I took a real gamble with, and it all paid off.

ADORABLE!!!! Just stunning how Blade seems to be cradling your your little bub

 

[bekah1001]

If you do want a purebred, at least RESCUE one, do not $upport backyard breeders and puppy mills (the average human can not tell the difference froma breeder doing actual health testing and a BYB/puppy mill)

Stats show, on average, of EVERY LITTER cranked out for money, at least one of the litter will end up in a dog pound or homeless.

find your next pal on Petfinder.com------>
http://www.petfinder.com/index.html
(that site is for US only, i think............. BUT most countries have similar, dogs-in-need type of adoption site)

rescue a dog, save a dog from being one of the SIX MILLION DOGS put to death each year, in the midst of this severe dog overpopulation crisis. SPAY AND NEUTER!!!

You are breaking my heart! I went to petfinder just to look and I can't stop. I want to adopt all those dogs!

 

[sara]

Petfinder is for Rescues in North America, NOT just the US. Most Canadian rescues are on Petfinder, as well.

You are breaking my heart! I went to petfinder just to look and I can't stop. I want to adopt all those dogs!

Hmmmn, I expect we have another member in our "Petfinder Support Group"

If you want to help, Bekah, vulunteer with a rescue, shelter or transport group. You do not have to add another dog, if you cant adopt right now, BUT YOU CAN MAKE A DIFFERENCE.

Transport groups are an amazing resource for dogs, they can get a dog from one end of the country to the other, with many people only driving an hour or 2. Many, MANY dogs have been pulled out of kill shelters in one state or province, and end up in another (or even another country!) and been adopted.

 

[bekah1001]

Petfinder is for Rescues in North America, NOT just the US. Most Canadian rescues are on Petfinder, as well.



Hmmmn, I expect we have another member in our "Petfinder Support Group"

If you want to help, Bekah, vulunteer with a rescue, shelter or transport group. You do not have to add another dog, if you cant adopt right now, BUT YOU CAN MAKE A DIFFERENCE.

Transport groups are an amazing resource for dogs, they can get a dog from one end of the country to the other, with many people only driving an hour or 2. Many, MANY dogs have been pulled out of kill shelters in one state or province, and end up in another (or even another country!) and been adopted.

There is a BARK walkathon that is coming up that i'm going to be volunteering at. It's the Bytown Assosiaction for Rescued Kanines.... BARK is foster homes father then a kennel which I believe is so much better then a dog being stuck in a cage all day.
I think this year the donations are going to mogley a greyhound/husky foster dog that was hit by a car.

his back leg need to amputated, one of his lungs colasped and his pelvis is broken on both sides.
I hope they are able to raise enough money for his surgery.

 

[tigerlily46514]

Many breeders will take back their pups or dogs, btw,
but that is only one tiny piece of the pie
in being a truly health-oriented breeder. Especially when the price of such dogs, seen as 'products' and costing often up into the THOUSANDS of dollars!!!

imo,
propagating truly health tested dogs, whose genetics and family trees have been researched,
is the hallmark of a "responsible" breeder, who IS working to reduce the diseases and deformities of the purebred. THOSE dogs can cost a lot, to try to break even from the extensive genetic and family tree research, and testing done to the parents, prior to breeding the parents.

however, most breeders in US, about 85% of them, breed for LOOKS, (since that IS the focus of the AKC)
and simply point at an AKC certificate, or a title that has ZERO health testing involved,
and say, "this will create a healthy dog."

and it is a lie. but, the lie is rampant, unquestioned, and widely believed, like the children's story, "The Emporer's Clothes".

 

[tx_cowgirl]

I have not yet read through all the replies, but just wanted to give my two cents.

It is a DARN SHAME that purebred dogs have fallen to this. A dog with great conformation, depending on the task it is bred for, can often perform its task much better than the poorly built dog. BUT, a dog with great conformation, who has also lost a lot of it's instinct and brains through trying to meet these conformation requirements, will not be able to perform the task it was originally bred for as well as the pigeon-toed, scrawny, ugly dog of the same breed.
SOOO, what we need is a dog with great conformation, great brains, and a great desire to do the job it was bred to do.
SO....
Who out there is breeding these perfect dogs???? Where are you?
Obviously this is just not possible. In a perfect world it could certainly happen. But nothing in this world is perfect.
A BREED, no matter what the breed, has been created by breeding multiple dogs of a similar type over many many years to develop dogs that create offspring extremely similar to them. But, unfortunately, breeding does not allow you to keep the good genes and not pass on all the bad ones. This means EVERY pure breed is going to have a disease or disorder of some sort that will become very common in that breed. It's unavoidable.

On the same topic, there is a group of breeders that is changing the Dalmatian world. (There may be other breeds, but being a Dal lover I've done some research on this one.) Dalmatians often have a genetic defect that affects their urinary tract. A high percentage of Dalmatians are prone to increased urinary uric acid, urate crystals, bladder aggregate formation, and urinary tract obstruction. This defect can even lead to death. A group of breeders has developed a way to dramatically lower the chances of this through bringing in Pointers to their breeding programs. These dogs are being referred to as "LUA" or "NUA" Dalmatians (LOW Uric Acid or NORMAL Uric Acid). They are typically 99-99.9% AKC Dalmatians with the other tiny percentage being Pointers. Breeding stock of both breeds is very carefully chosen to stay as close to breed standards and health as possible, while still striving to develop dogs who are still capable of doing and enjoying what they were bred to do. As I said before, a perfect dog is impossible, but these people are really doing a great job of improving the breed.
This is just one of many websites on LUA Dals.

If all breeders of all breeds were willing to attempt this to better the health and quality of life of their beloved breed, there would be more to be said about purebreds. Now before you say, "Well where are all these offspring going?", they DO take extreme care in finding homes for all of the babies. They are incredibly picky(I have checked, although I have no intention of getting one anytime soon), and do care a lot about where there beloved dogs will be going. They have done so much work to improve this breed, and care for these dogs.
I am definitely a huge advocate of adopting, and there are soooooo many dogs in need of homes, but nonetheless I do admire what these people are doing. They are examples of breeders who really truly care about the breed they are working with, and they are not just trying to make money. They truly care about the future of the breed and helping it reach its highest potential. If only all breeders were this way.

As for pet stores, that is truly a hard hard place for a potential new dog owner to be. Especially an educated one. For one, you KNOW that the money is most likely going to support puppy mills. But also, most of the employees either don't know or don't give a damn if a dog is well suited for its "shoppers." So, as a dog lover, you feel the need to save this dog from a potentially terrible life. And many of these pet stores take terrible care of the pups, so the dogs are in a bad place already. It is definitely a difficult decision for us to make, because it's either save one dog or support suffering of more dogs. I find the best thing for me to do is completely avoid pet stores entirely. This keeps me from having a poor pup tugging on my heartstrings, and then feeling guilty for leaving it, and keeps me from supporting puppy mills.

2 months, 6 months, or 6 years later that pup may end up in a shelter, and hopefully he/she will find a new, better home with an owner better suited for his/her needs. This is the unfortunate fate of many dogs in this world.

It is sad to think that however many years ago, people bred similar dogs to fill a need, to create dogs who could assist them in day to day life. Now these dogs are bred either just to breed, or to meet a breed standard. Many of these dogs could not even think about performing the tasks their ancestors did daily. Their original purpose has been bred out of them to develop a dog with a certain build, certain colors, certain coats....
I don't see this changing. It is sad truth of purebred dogs. Some rare breeds have not gotten to this point yet, as the majority of their breeders still care about the breed and it's original purpose, and are still striving to improve the breed. For the sake of these dogs and their breeds, I would hope that they don't see that day....but I don't know that they won't.

 

[Ina]

As for pet stores, that is truly a hard hard place for a potential new dog owner to be. Especially an educated one. For one, you KNOW that the money is most likely going to support puppy mills. But also, most of the employees either don't know or don't give a damn if a dog is well suited for its "shoppers." So, as a dog lover, you feel the need to save this dog from a potentially terrible life. And many of these pet stores take terrible care of the pups, so the dogs are in a bad place already. It is definitely a difficult decision for us to make, because it's either save one dog or support suffering of more dogs. I find the best thing for me to do is completely avoid pet stores entirely. This keeps me from having a poor pup tugging on my heartstrings, and then feeling guilty for leaving it, and keeps me from supporting puppy mills.

Yes, this is what happened to me. My dog was in that pet store window for 2 weeks before I saw him for the first time. 3 days later he was still there - bigger than all the other puppies and by now looking very sad. If I had not taken him who knows what would have happened to him? I strongly feel that I have rescued him.
The people working at the pet store definitely don't know about puppy mills. They adore these little pups. We visited the store 5 months later for the first time and they still remembered that I called my pup Smokey. I thought this was amazing!

 

[tigerlily46514]

Tx, i so agree, LIKE I SAID, there ARE some breeders, less than 5% of all breeders, doing research, genetic testing, and carefully trying to weed out inherent problems in some breeds.

However, such breeders are few, but extremely commendable!! but rare.
Our purebred dogs are coming from a very very small gene pool.

Over 85% of breeders do NO TESTTING whatsoever, just cute dog + cute dog = fun puppies for a month or two, plus ca$h prise for cranking out yet another litter of dogs into a dog overpopulation crisis...and a BIGGER cash prize to the breeders if they pay $25 to AKC prior to selling the babies. KA-CHING!! Ppl pay top dollar for that AKC paper, which has no bearing whatsoever on a dog's health, at all. If anything, an AKC dog is MORE likely to have health issue that come from small gene pools.

Also, dogs meeting *most* conformations, are only winning beauty contests. No talent, no skill whatsoever is involved, and dogs who carry diseasses, or even suffer themselves from diseases, do get ribbons. Dog shows have nothing whatosever to do with breed health.

AKC registration has nada to do with health, or humane treatment of dogs,
with only 5% of AKC breeders ever being inspected. The AKC even registered dogs from the nightmare place Buddy came from.

Pet stores very well might be oblivious to where the latest batch of baby pups arriving into their stores were raised, or in what conditions the parents of those dogs are in, i agree.

The ppl working at pet stores, may very well love dogs, but, that doesn't mean their love of dogs has anything to do with cond'ns at the breeders. Most pet stores accept deliveries of new pups, not go out and inspect the breeder's barns.
They are in it for the cash, and buying the least expensive pups they can, and adding most profit they can, to make cash. It IS a business for profit.
Their love of dogs in no way protects dogs. I just could not morally support a pet store with my dollars, cuz that IS exactly what keeps them in business. It's a moral thing to me. Some ppl will not even buy their dog food in petstores that sell puppies, to 'boycott' that place. Pet stores are typically notorious $upporters of puppy mill$, whether they know it or not.

I do not feel giving cash to someone who $ells a dog that looks sad, is same thing as rescuing a dog who is overlooked and actually homeless in a dog pound....a truly desparate dog who IS competing with store-bought dogs in pet stores, and may be put to death if no one gives him a chance.

 

[tigerlily46514]

but, Tx, i agree, so long as huge cash prizes (and much false superficial pride by owners)
is put onto the breed's LOOKS,
and not it's HEALTH,
nothing is going to change. The AKC rakes in millions, registering puppies each year, and has very very poor record on ever lifting a finger to improve a breed's HEALTH.

 

[charmedwolf]

*raises hand* I'm one of the few breeders that health tests. The Great Dane breed is slowly coming back from their bout with health problems.

My kennel (Obsidian Snow), my aunt's (Sheadane), Lobato, Shillrest and Lagarada are all breeders that have come together to really help better the breed. I know for a fact that just between my aunt and I our oldest dog has been 15 year old, really remarkable for Great Danes, and haven't seen a case of hip displasia in at least 10 years.

It's not just the breeder though. Judges are the ones that influence the breeders to make the choices they do. If a bunch of judges moved towards a certain type then some breeders will go for that type regardless of health, other breeders will go for it with regards to health and others such as myself refuse to change our type to accomidate them.

 

[DuncansMom]

I bet this topic might stir up heated feelings,
but i hope not. I've discussed this before on other boards, and wow, sometimes fires fly at the very idea. But, before you hit the keyboard to scream me out, maybe take a moment and do even a small amount of research.
and
People are certainly free to believe what they want to believe, and there's no reason to be mean about it, whatever you believe. (i've been called names for saying what i am about to say)
We all love dogs, we are all doing the best we can, with what we understand so far. I know, i was a huge fool about dog food, for decades, i didn't know any better, and i am still learning on that one.

I was recently discussing this on another thread.
I too, used to think having a title, meant the dog was free of illness, or a superior specimen healthwise,
but, there are plennnnnty of instances, when the 'titled' dog, is carrying genes for illness/deformities, and even directly suffering from them himself. But, most ppl think like i used to--------- if the dog has a title, he's a-okay.

but, it's a myth.

I was shocked when i researched this, and learned more on that. Kinda the same way i was shocked when i discovered, late in life, that store bought dog food is often crappy dog food. (heh heh, it might be just ME, it might be *i* am just 'easy to shock', ha ha)

In fact, there ARE amazing, dedicated breeders who breed specifically to remove the health problems that are so rampant among purebreds, but, such breeders are only 5% of all breeders.

One reason is, this testing is terribly terribly expensive.
85% of breeders are backyard breeders, with zero health testing done at all. Some feel if both parents have 'papers', they are good to go. Papers mean nothing at all, except the person paid money to the AKC. that's it, that is all papers mean.
Title means a bit more, but in NO WAY indicates their health was ever ever tested, unless health testing is specifically pointed at, as in OFA certificate.

Of the remaining 15% of breeders, 10% do "some" testing, but not nearly enough testing.

and the rare 5% do extensive testing, researching the entire family tree of both parents, including blood tests, xrays, all kinds of testing is done, but that HISTORY of grandparents, great grandparents, etc, health, is very important too.

Consider watching this. Witness a King Charles Spaniel, standing there with his "BEST IN SHOW" ribbons----from CRUFTS!! while suffering from the horrific sryngomyelia.

and no, USA is no better, do not try to point at this and say, "But, but, that is Britain, is USA, we don't do that".
Yes, we do. In USA, even mother/son matings can get papers, and no health testing is req'd.

Warning some of this may be disturbing to watch:

http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/pedigree-dogs-exposed/

Above is part one of six parts of this documentary, the links to parts 2 through 5 can be found in the videos next to that one.

ANYWAY, i never ever ever see harm in thinking.
In wondering.
In learning and researching.
i just don't. And questioning. And i know, on DogTrick Academy, THERE ARE LOTS OF TRUE DOG LOVERS.
so i just wanted to give others who may not have ever considered whether a "registered" dog, or a "purebred" dog, IS healthier or not,
a chance to think it over and at least, QUESTION it.

I am not smart enough, to fully understand what can be done, to change this,
and since there is money involved,
that always makes changing things more difficult...........
BUT IF ANYONE WANTS TO SHARE THEIR IDEAS OF WHAT COULD BE DONE TO CHANGE THE PLIGHT OF THE PUREBRED, feel free to post them.

I'm so glad to read this from a Border Collie owner. I have a rescue who we think is border collie mix, and I told a friend about him, wanting to chat about her dogs, and she said "Oh well I had PUREBRED Border Collies", which I thought was very rude. I'm so glad you believe in rescuing mutts. We saw so many wonderful dogs on Petfinder.com and from different rescue groups and animal shelters before we found Duncan (our doggie). We couldn't adopt most of them because our apartment has a rule that dogs cannot be over 35 lbs, but I hope other people will adopt them. There are so many people who buy dogs from the pet store or breeders and don't understand how many dogs need homes. Many people have asked why we didn't get a dog from a breeder or the pet store, and talking to them about the problems with purebreds and the need to rescue good dogs from euthanasia has helped change some of their minds. My brother-in-law used to make fun of his girlfriend for owning a rescue mutt but now that my husband and I have also adopted a rescue, he has stopped saying that purebred dogs are better. I want Duncan to be a good example of a rescue dog and an ambassador for mutts. He is already one of the best-looking dogs anyone has ever seen and I am on this site to help me help him to be one of the best behaved dogs. I think a good way to solve this problem is to keep talking to people about it, and train our rescue dogs to be well-behaved. I hope to train Duncan to be a therapy dog, eventually. I also have a magnet on my car bumper that says, "Save a Life: Adopt a Homeless Pet".

 

[abby_someone]

DuncansMom,
I have owned several "mutts" in my lifetime. There really is no difference in how you love them, or how they love you. Hate to say it, but dogs is dogs. They are all wonderful in their own right. I would never say that my dog is better than your dog simply because mine has a traceable pedigree. We didn't even know what my first dog was, but she was one of the most important parts of my childhood. I have some of the best memories of that black, goofy dog. You are right, your friend with the "purebred" BC's was incredibly rude. She should have been excited!!! AND she should have wanted to see him and pet him.....I have a hard time not petting a dog when I see them as long as they don't seem ppl aggressive. REGARDLESS of pedigree.

I adopt cats. I have 5, the rest I have found homes for. I have a bleeding heart, and I am very happy when I read a success story about a rescued animal. Thank you thank you thank you thank you!!!!!! You are a saint in my eye, and so is everybody else who rescues these homeless animals.

AND you are right......he is beautiful! Good luck with him!

 

[sara]

I love my rescued dogs... all 5 of them! 2 are purebreds, one is a crossbreed, and 2 are mutts... all have issues the 2 purebreds and one mutt are deaf, the other mutt and the crossbreed are fearful (extremely!) and I couldn't love anyof them less due to their breeding or rescue dog status.

My sister has a purebred that she bought as a puppy, and then adopted a 3 year old mutt... she loves them both dearly, and doesn't consider the purebred any better than the rescue.

I agree with abby_someone, dogs are dogs, no matter the breeding, papers or otherwise... though I must say, around here you get the purebred snobs AND the rescue snobs, and often, the rescue snobs are alot worse!

 

[running_dog]

... you get the purebred snobs AND the rescue snobs, and often, the rescue snobs are alot worse!

You forget, there are also the "working-bred mutt" snobs, I should think that we are by far the worst

Getting along well with other dog owners is really tricky but when it comes down to the actual dogs... I've not met one I can truly dislike yet - not even wimpish working spaniels nor the lunatic dog that attacked Zac last week.

 

[abby_someone]

Running_dog, you are SOOOO right!

 

[tigerlily46514]

Me, i'm all about rescue, and do not belong to the group that feign that my dog's background is superior due to a piece of paper. How is that 'snobbery'?

Nor will anyone EVER catch me thinking a dog's value can be put on a piece of paper, the way the AKC beauty contest do, nope!

I do think the issue of dog overpopulation crisis IS seen entirely differently by those who are pro-rescue, and the 80% of all breeders who think, "My two dogs are cute, let's make some litters!" when at least one puppy from each litter ends up homeless. (stats wise).

there is a difference in what a 'snob' is, imo. But, if being passionately pro-rescue,
and VERY pro- NEUTER AND SPAY,
and very concerned about the plight of the purebred (dispite ancedotal stories posted in this thread, the purebreds ARE becoming UNhealthier, links in previous posts)
and having absolutely Zero interest in a dog's registration (which means NOTHING at all about his health),
if focusing on breeding dogs to eradicate health issues rather than focusing on their outer beauty for AKC dog beauty shows,
---------- well, if this mindset, and the urge to educate others who are cranking out litter after litter in their backyards,= makes me a "snob",(?) then i'll wear it proudly!!! WHOOOOOOOOOT!!! WISH THERE WERE EVEN MORE 'SNOBS' (?) LIKE ME!!! If there WERE, backyard breeders would diminish, and the pathetic state of most purebred's health WOULD be heading the other direction. WHOOOOOOOOT!!!