The Plight Of The Purebred

Anneke

Anneke

Honored Member
tigerlily46514 said:
Yes, the dog Anneke posted, a most wonderful looking dog---------
looks like what we in USA call a "Belgian Malinois"
and that breed seems to have been spared decades of abusive "standards" and generally have more naturally shaped and functional hips.
Click to expand...
The Belgian Malinois is a different breed. ;) It's short haired. One that has not been tampered with that much.
Belgian shepherds are lighter build than the germans. And the Old German Shepherd Dog has a long coat.

Little off topic fact: a lot of Belgian Malinois are used as police K9 in America. And quite a few of them are bred and trained in Holland and then shipped off to America.
 
Anneke

Anneke

Honored Member
Tigerlily, something I would like to see in confirmation shows is that they start testing for the functionality of the dog, not just the looks.
I mean, in the herding group, test dogs for what they are supposed to do(herding), their personality(no signs of aggression), health tests(some testing is done: ED, HD, by good breeders) then the looks of the dog.
I think that would give a better result in dogs, instead of sick dogs, dogs with inborn agression or fear.
And another thing would be to better educate the judges. To make sure they know the breeds they judge.

But well, that might be to much to ask for.:rolleyes:
 
tigerlily46514

tigerlily46514

Honored Member
ah, the narrower head of that dog you posted looked like a malinois to me, which i did know is a different breed.:rolleyes: In USA, we have both the Belgian Malinois, AND the GSD, yeah, it's two different breeds. ;) At first, like i said, i thought the dog you posted "looked like" a belgian malinois, cuz it still has good square natural dog hips.

but
i think, til this minute,
i have mixed up the Belgian Malinois, which i never noticed does have shorter hair!
and the Belgian Tervuren, which has longer hair.
i have always loved the malinois, and once came very very close to owning one...long story.

lol, i never realised, i had those two belgian dogs swirled together in my mind.
:ROFLMAO:

re: the "old" gsd,
and the "new" gsd,
like many many ppl have mentioned on this thread,
many breeds have changed dramatically in recent decades from their original form.

.......cuz breeders were trying to meet the current fads for that breed, oops, i mean "standards" for that breed.
Dachsunds did not used to be THAT extreme. Bulldogs used to be able to breathe and give birth.
KingCharlesCavs rounded heads did not used to be SO round that many are now crippled with springomylia.
so many breeds have CHANGED from their original shape.
 
tigerlily46514

tigerlily46514

Honored Member
//"Tigerlily, something I would like to see in confirmation shows is that they start testing for the functionality of the dog, not just the looks."//

well, a talent competition would be nice, for dog beauty pageants,
but some talents would be hard to put on a stage, like bird dogs or hunting dogs...

I'd like even BASIC functions of a dog to factored in,
like breathing---can this dog breathe?
eating?
mating and giving birth?
ability to run at all?
not die if outdoors on a hot day?

jsut even some basic functions of a dog,
and general health of the dog. There were some interesting discussions a few pages ago about a very very few breeds ARE now having to pass a vet test to enter the final round of the beauty pageant...
 
southerngirl

southerngirl

Honored Member
A bit of topic but. Belgian Malinois are a great breed. I met one before his owner was the announcer/owner of a Dock diving team. When they were having tutorials for dogs to try out the dock diving if one of the dogs left the toy the Belgian dog would jump from the ground into the pool to retrieve the toy. It was really cool how high that dog could jump
 
tigerlily46514

tigerlily46514

Honored Member
btw, re: temperament testing to avoid giving a shy dog or a d.a. dog a prize,

I don't think one could pass off a dog-aggressive in a beauty show,
:ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO::ROFLMAO:
nope, i think the dog-aggressive dog marching along in close quarters with all those unknown dogs, would give himself away!!:ROFLMAO::LOL::LOL: I don't think that is a big concern, not noticing a d.a. dog in a room full of dogs!!

and if a shy/reactive dog can tolerate having a stranger grab his head and open his mouth, that dog is not that extremely shy either, and is definitely not shy/reactive.

i think those two temperments would be easy to notice, in a room full of dogs, where strangers are grabbing the dog's head...

I think there IS a standard for most breeds temperament, if you read the standards, they describe the overall attitude each breed should display.
 
tigerlily46514

tigerlily46514

Honored Member
//".....And they look NOTHING like wolves, from which, supposedly, are the ancestors of all dogs"//
but dogs are not wolves,
and evolved from the gray wolf over 15,000 years ago.
Most ppl see the dingo dog as what a wild dog that humans havent' messed with too much might look like.
but, it'd depend on the climate, too. A dingo dog would probably freeze to death on the artic.

that documentary "Dogs Decoded" has some interesting clips
on how when one breeds foxes for friendliness to humans-----the foxes APPEARANCE EVOLVED too!!:eek:
 
tigerlily46514

tigerlily46514

Honored Member
//"A bit of topic but. Belgian Malinois are a great breed. '//

yeah they are, just gorgeous dogs!! :love: I wonder if they shed less than GSDs?
I think, til now, i had malinois and tervurens mixed up as all one breed, :rolleyes: maybe with different coat types in same breed, in *my* mind.:ROFLMAO:

if i ever ever had a choice, between a GSD and a malinois and tervuren, THAT would be one tough choice! i guess i'd want all three dogs!!:LOL:
 
tigerlily46514

tigerlily46514

Honored Member
I love Anneke's idea of health testing be mandatory to participate in dog beauty contests, that could help!! is great idea!!


//"And another thing would be to better educate the judges. To make sure they know the breeds they judge."//

well, i think the judges are limited by the current fads, oops, i mean "standards" for that year.

If the standard for THAT year reads "the GSD hip has to be insanely sloped like crazy"
i *think* the judge sort of has to follow that years' standard,
and pick the dog which meets that years's standard.
 
Dogster

Dogster

Honored Member
It just surprises me HOW MUCH they have changed, over those 15 000 years.:eek: I wonder how dogs would look like today if we didn't do anything to change their appearance....

 
tigerlily46514

tigerlily46514

Honored Member
//" It just surprises me HOW MUCH they have changed, over those 15 000 years.:eek: I wonder how dogs would look like today if we didn't do anything to change their appearance...."//


Ah, a creature can change dramatically in mere generations. Evolution can happen rapidly, BUT evolution ONLY happens, only, as a result of a change in the creatures world.
If the creatures climate, diet, lifestyle, predators or prey, etc,
has changed slowly enough--------
the creature will evolve to meet that change.
If nothing changes, the creature does NOT evolve. (everyone likes to point at chimps and say, "ey, why don't chimps turn into humans?" :rolleyes: chimps are being successful as they are now, and are on same diet, same lifestyle, etc, they've always been on, duh.) but i digress.

Germs, once exposed to penicillin, can evolve in MERE HOURS, and change their cell walls, and begin producing a new form of themselves, which is now penicillin resistant:eek: ...but, of course, more complex lifeforms take longer to evolve.

Now, the two pics you put side by side are the result of humans messing around with the dogs, not nature.
Look what we've done to cows---rendering them to be misshapen, helpless freaks,
and same goes for the domestic pig,
but
if you take a domestic pig,
and set them free in the wild,
WITHIN MERE GENERATIONS:eek: ----the pig evolves back to a more boar like creature.


they say, for dogs,
if we set a bunch of dogs out in the wild,
within a short period of time--------only a few generations:eek: ---------- the dogs all begin to evolve into a dingo-like dog.


but, i think it would depend on the climate, too,
obviously,
a dingo dog would die in the artic...
 
Dogster

Dogster

Honored Member
Proves how much I know.:oops:

So, dogs would evolve back to wild, dingo-like creatures???? Wow... But I guess it depends on their survivability in the wild...
 
tigerlily46514

tigerlily46514

Honored Member
//"So, dogs would evolve back to wild, dingo-like creatures????'//

that's what the experts say, and someone has studied dogs released into the wild, and in warmer climates,the dogs all evolved back into a dingo type of dog again.
Yeah, the dog DNA and the wolf DNA is not the same.



but yeah, you are right, climate would be a factor...
no idea how one could release dogs into the artic to see what type of dog that would be, cuz no way to introduce that climate "slowly enough" to allow the dogs to evolve before they froze to death...
...but if one could do that, introduce a cold climate to dogs who are NOT being bred by humans, who knows, maybe those dogs might be much like a malamute? who knows...
 
southerngirl

southerngirl

Honored Member
hey say, for dogs,
if we set a bunch of dogs out in the wild,
within a short period of time--------only a few generations:eek: ---------- the dogs all begin to evolve into a dingo-like dog.
Click to expand...
I would be cool to see them document this(maybe they already have). Like keep track of the dogs they let loose by putting one of those tracker thingies on them and do the same with their pups. It would be cool to see them evolve from dogs to Dingo-like dog.
 
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