Working

[running_dog]

Maybe to get this thread back on to the original question (LOL Tigerlily did we derail ANOTHER thread )

For the many people outside of the UK who don't have a concept of this form of hunting (or even what we call "lurchers" ) this is a video I found on youtube of lurchers being used for "lamping". In the UK hunting with lurchers and other sighthounds is legal as long as you have the landowners permission and hunt only legal quarry - that is rabbits, rabbits, rabbits, and er let me think... rabbits, it is also legal to hunt rats with dogs (usually terriers) and I very much doubt you'd get in trouble for taking grey squirrels .

As far as obedience and tricks to help with this kind of hunting... I came to this site to improve Zac's recall, I saw that trick training was a good way of increasing the amount of attention Zac paid to me. It seems like you have the recall taped. I still think that any opportunity to work with your dog is valuable though. I don't hunt though my dog does when the opportunity arises .

My lurcher (collie/whippet/saluki/greyhound) has a very deadpan sense of humour and takes NOT doing tricks very seriously. He often understands a trick instantaneously and then goes out of his way NOT to perform it correctly (anyone watching finds this much more entertaining than if he performed like all the other trick dogs). I have learnt a lot about him through training tricks that I could only have glimpsed any other way. You sound like you enjoy your dogs, I can only say that training tricks is very likely to increase your understanding and enjoyment.

Impulse control is very important, training your dog to leave/ignore a treat/ball/toy/rag and refocus on you. I train all kinds of tricks (spin, take a bow, rollover, sit up and beg, weave, jumping, fetch, watch me...) in the vicinity of things that I want my dog to learn to ignore (including sheep, horses, cows, deer and other lurchers ).

Obeying commands anytime anywhere, I test my dog... will he listen when I have my back to him? When I'm sat? When I'm laid down? When I'm walking? When I'm running? When there are screaming children around us? When I've fallen flat on my face in the mud and there is a dog aggressive dog bearing down on us in attack mode?

If your dogs jump then the frisbee dog trainers recommend training your dog to jump in a way that has them landing on all four feet to avoid injuries. Training your dog to jump through a hoop can help with this. If you have barbed wire in your locality then you may want to train your dog to jump only when a coat covers the barbs. Trick training of jumping can be used to ensure that your dog is fit to jump when it needs to in the field. Obviously you won't be training jumping until your pup is all grown up.

I hope these give you some ideas... it is nice to see another lurcher owner on the site... I hope you stick around as an active member... it is fascinating to learn about another strain of lurcher from you... lurchers are fantastic dogs and they deserve to increase their profile on this site .

 

[johnny1609]

My dogs are stock broken and that is it, this pup will be cat broken aswell.

Ill be teaching the dog to jump as soon as it is retrieve trained, so around 3-4 months.

This lurcher is not bull blooded but traditional type.

I won't be allowing my pup to play rag at all as this teaches them to be hard mouth

 

[tx_cowgirl]

As for the original purpose of this thread, LOL...
I will soon be training one of mine for shed hunting(finding shed deer antlers) and blood trailing. But that's really the only "hunting" I will be doing with my dogs involved. I'm a bowhunter.

Some interesting stuff here in this thread, lol.
Yes, deer in the US can be quite large, but it varies A LOT depending which parts of the US. For instance, here in Texas parts of Texas have Whitetail that average around 150-180 pounds, but there are parts of Texas that have deer that average 200-250 pounds. (With Whitetails typically being on the 200 pound side, and Mulies being on the higher end at 250+.) But, go to Kansas and you will assuredly see Muleys averaging 270-300+ pounds. MASSIVE MASSIVE deer. Just incredible how huge the deer are in Kansas. I would die to hunt there. Of course I live in parts of Texas where the deer are in the 150-180 pound range...so Kansas deer are just incredible.
The largest whitetail ever shot was actually over 500 pounds! (Live weight.) I believe that was in...Minnesota??? Somewhere up north. Anyway, deer in Northern states tend to be quite large, partially due to the fact that most places north of Texas get a lot more moisture...therefore better forage...so the deer have much better nutrition, so they can grow larger. However, south Texas deer are prized, people pay big money to hunt in South Texas...slightly more moisture there than in the rest of the state. I have a buddy that shot a 300 pound live weight Muley in central Texas...incredible deer.

Anywho...Tigerlily mentioned deer size so that got me rambling a bit, lol.

 

[johnny1609]

The deer sizes you mention are the size of our 3rd largest deer, fallow. The largest deer killed in this country was a red weighing in at over 400 kg

 

[running_dog]

I won't be allowing my pup to play rag at all as this teaches them to be hard mouth

I realised that would be your approach however I also know some people teach dogs to retrieve using a thrown rag or other cloth (the pup I am training for my sister likes retrieving rope ) so that was what my reference to the rag was, not playing tug.

 

[johnny1609]

Oh sorry rd, in hunting terms to rag is to shake. Ill be using a rabbit skin and a dummy to train panda

 

[tx_cowgirl]

"The deer sizes you mention are the size of our 3rd largest deer, fallow. The largest deer killed in this country was a red weighing in at over 400 kg "

Oh yes, we have Fallow too, just gorgeous. And red stag, now THOSE are magnificent animals. We have those in various parts of the country as well. Axis deer are some of my faves, those are #1 on my "most wanted" list, lol! Fortunately for me I will probably be able to accomplish that this summer.

 

[tigerlily46514]

//"Ill be teaching the dog to jump as soon as it is retrieve trained, so around 3-4 months. "//

I don't know if "jump" is some british hunting term,(?)
but in USA, if we are teaching our dogs to "jump" that usually means plain ol jumping over items, of ever increasing heights. Is that what you mean by "jump", Johnny?

if so, it may be good idea to clear activity that with your vet first, as most dog health experts advise that we do not want puppies jumping much
til they are almost two years old, something to do with damaging their hips and giving dog hip problems later in life.

but otherwise, i think tricks and cue training, is greatest thing, no matter what your intention for you dog's future job.
Cues like recall, focus "look at me", stay, targeting, fetch, drop it, leave it, etc, may be helpful for your goals? Maybe postponing jumping til dog is older and his hip joints are all solidified in place and stronger.

This trick and cue training, all helps the dog become even more adept and trusting of following YOUR cues, develops many skills, increased bond dog to human, as well as human to dog, too! It increases a dog's ability to think, to figure things out, to get a chance to use their minds, to make choices. Trick and cue training also helps prevent most dog's number one complaint "boredom", (which doesn't sound like it will be much a threat to YOUR dog's lives, though!)

Every dog is unique and what motivates or thrills one dog, may fall flat for another dog. Dogs are indeed, unique individuals, no two are just alike. Imo, that is part of the fun of training a dog, is, it is a great way to really to "get to know" your dog.

 

[tigerlily46514]

Johnny, if there IS a certain cue, that you'd like to begin working on, let us know, if you are not sure best fastest way to teach that cue. Someone around here will probably know. I like how stoked you are with your puppy's "sit" already, i sense you might be someone who is going to really catch "the tricks training bug"!! I find it addictive, and my dog LOVES IT.

of course, puppies have shorter att'n spans than adult dogs, and puppies usually need much shorter lessons than adult dogs can tolerate, before the dog begins to zone out. Many ppl try to get a beginner dog to pay attention TOO long, right off the bat, and the dog zones out, and some ppl give up, walking away, "My dog won't pay att'n." but the human just tried for too long of a lesson right off the bat, before the beginner dog has built up his attention span very much.
I always stop before my dog zones out. I always say "all done" so he knows lesson is over, and we always have play session afterwards, to help my dog think lessons ARE fun, and to help him release any built up excitement.

But, even puppies sure can begin learning things, as you've already figured out.

 

[johnny1609]

Lurchers are taught at a young age to jump as it is needed for hunting. Jumping fences, gates and other such items are an essential with hunting. The dog must also be able to jump whilst retrieving to be any good.

Pup is also doing down now, but need to gradually remove the treats

 

[tigerlily46514]

oh, I can easily imagine, how a hunting dog would need to jump. Was not my point at all.

I also believe, (perhaps you differ) that most dogs can learn most anything, at any age. I do think, if a puppy grows up around livestock, and cats, they become very used to that, and those puppies will have huge advantage over getting an adult dog to be used to those animals.
But so far as tricks go, i think adults can learn anything. I know my adult dog has learned every trick and cue i've ever ever tried.

He learned agility at about age 3 years old. Rocked at it, too. so far as i know, he'd never jumped in his life.
ever. (my dog grew up in a cage 24/7)

I don't think jumping is something that HAS TO BE introduced as an infant. Many to most champion agility jumpers were not allowed to jump til their hips had matured...still, turned out to be prize-winning champions!!!!!!!!!!!
Maybe, cuz i have had an elderly dog, and have had my heartbroken when his joints went out, maybe having seen my much loved dog fall apart at his joints, is why *i *feel cautious about protecting dog joints from damage. If you've ever loved a dog, who can't walk or run anymore, the experience does change your views about caring for dogs and how important their joints really are, later in life.
we really just didn't know any better back then, with that dog. Maybe if someone HAD told us, maybe we wouldn't have believed them anyway.

but, you don't have to listen to me, at all, and lol, every once in a blue moon we do disagree around here on this or that about dogs!! you can google "puppy jumping, hip damage" or you can ask your own vet. And of course, at the end of the day, if you feel to learn how to jump, a dog must learn how to jump as a roly-poly infant, or else he won't be good at jumping, (?) well, it is your dog!

And probably, even if you teach your infant dog to begin jumping, it will have still have fine hips as an older dog, i'm picturing a slimmer dog, not a bulky or big dog (?) so it would seem the slimmer dogs are probably less prone to any joint damage anyway. I hope you ARE right!! You can ask your vet if you do wonder about this.


Keep the treats itty bitty and tiny, so pup wont' get full or fat!! Dogs don't care how big a treat is, at all. For jackpots, you can give multiple, or repeated, sequential tiny treats, not one big treat...seems to count as bigger reward that way to the dog. SOUNDS LIKE YOU HAVE A VERY SMART LIL PUPPY THERE!! AND SOUNDS LIKE YOU ARE DOING GREAT!!

 

[johnny1609]

The treats the pup is having are propably half a mill spquare.

As for jumping at a young age, the pup will start hunting at 8 mnths and be expected to be jumping.

 

[johnny1609]

Oh and pup will never be fat, when she's old enough shell be doing 40-50 miles a week