Question About Ring Sports

[Dlilly]

I've been wondering this for a while... Do dogs trained in Shutzhund, French Ring, ect 'protect' their owners when they aren't at trials or training class? Is the point of this training to create a protection dog, or does the dog only do bite work at trials and training?

I know this is a delicate subject on here... I'm not interested in bite work at all, I just have a question.

 

[Mutt]

I think that almost every dog, shutzhund or not, will protect their owner when this is needed (in dangerous situations).
If people are doing it with their own dogs, so not training them for the police/as guard dog etc. Then it is just a sport and for fun/the workout of th dog.
Keep in mind that shutzhund for example is not only protection work, but also tracking and obdience.

 

[orpheum]

Here in Belgium I believe that it depends on the sport and this is how I look at them.

Here we have KNPV (police dog training) and this is really hard. Only intented for the working dog and this means these dogs are very independent/strong minded. They are trained to bite "everywhere" (being outside of the training/trial field) and a lot of "civilian work". When trained properly ... no problemo. When trained poorly these dogs become a big risk (MY opinion). Luckily not everyone is allowed in this sport.
There's also (French) ringsport. This is intended for security dog training/breeders. Since they are not allowed to actually bite in the working field a part of the program is done with muzzle (protecting an object for example). Mostly malinois in this sport branch.
Then there is IPO/shutzhund. More open to "everyone"/breeders who want to do a sport. This is the "softest" version in my opinion, but still ... Wouldn't want to be the apache (the one that gets bitten) A lot of people just do this for fun to be active with their dog.
They do define in almost all the schools that it is intented for "guarding dogs" (shepherds, malinois, bouvier, dobermann, ...) when you want to start training/compete.
This leads me to the fact that a more correct answer to your question would be:
These dogs were created to protect their owner (like a hunting dog is created for the hunting sport). Decades of breeding make that these dogs like these kind of "jobs". Can they be happy in a family without doing this sport ?? YES!! But one should look out for a "show line" breeder, not a dog from a working line. But these dogs just love to guard, like a border collie loves to herd or a pointer loves to search for prey etc ...

I know a lot of IPO dogs (they train this where I used to teach) and they do NOT bite without command. Most of the time it is a game for the dog and without the sleeve they "don't know" what to do. I do feel that all these dogs are more self confident.
The more the focus is on biting the civilian as they call it here, without focus on the sleeve, the more risk of biting incidents.
I know 2 police dogs and they are VERY social dogs, I do NOT fear them at all or feel the danger of getting a bite. With one of them (and the owner of course) we frequently go out for a walk and never did we have a problem. The new generation police dogs isn't the bite eager dog you used to see in the field, allthough they are still nasty when needed.

I think it is like in every sport. A responsible owner will get a good result being a controlled dog. People you wouldn't even give a hamster out of risk that they would make it a raging ball of fur get an uncontrolled dog. These last ones usually don't get far in the sport, but they create a bad image for the sport.

I don't think that this should be a delicate subject, because when trained properly this is an AWSOME sport !!!

 

[Maura]

From what I've seen, and we did have a personal protection trained dog, you have to decide what you want. If you want personal protection, then train the dog for personal protection, not schutzhund. If you want to put your dog in the ring and trial him, then go for schutzhund. Watch videos of the top schutzhund dogs. You see a lot of tight heeling, tight watch on the handler (looking for the toy in the jacket), and only biting the padded arm. A PPD should bite the hand that is holding the stick or gun, not the opposite hand. This isn't to say that a schutzhund dog would not protect you, and that it is not useful training, but you would need to really investigate each "school" of schutzhund thought.

 

[lil joe]

Here in Belgium I believe that it depends on the sport and this is how I look at them.

Here we have KNPV (police dog training) and this is really hard. Only intented for the working dog and this means these dogs are very independent/strong minded. They are trained to bite "everywhere" (being outside of the training/trial field) and a lot of "civilian work". When trained properly ... no problemo. When trained poorly these dogs become a big risk (MY opinion). Luckily not everyone is allowed in this sport.
There's also (French) ringsport. This is intended for security dog training/breeders. Since they are not allowed to actually bite in the working field a part of the program is done with muzzle (protecting an object for example). Mostly malinois in this sport branch.
Then there is IPO/shutzhund. More open to "everyone"/breeders who want to do a sport. This is the "softest" version in my opinion, but still ... Wouldn't want to be the apache (the one that gets bitten) A lot of people just do this for fun to be active with their dog.
They do define in almost all the schools that it is intented for "guarding dogs" (shepherds, malinois, bouvier, dobermann, ...) when you want to start training/compete.
This leads me to the fact that a more correct answer to your question would be:
These dogs were created to protect their owner (like a hunting dog is created for the hunting sport). Decades of breeding make that these dogs like these kind of "jobs". Can they be happy in a family without doing this sport ?? YES!! But one should look out for a "show line" breeder, not a dog from a working line. But these dogs just love to guard, like a border collie loves to herd or a pointer loves to search for prey etc ...

I know a lot of IPO dogs (they train this where I used to teach) and they do NOT bite without command. Most of the time it is a game for the dog and without the sleeve they "don't know" what to do. I do feel that all these dogs are more self confident.
The more the focus is on biting the civilian as they call it here, without focus on the sleeve, the more risk of biting incidents.
I know 2 police dogs and they are VERY social dogs, I do NOT fear them at all or feel the danger of getting a bite. With one of them (and the owner of course) we frequently go out for a walk and never did we have a problem. The new generation police dogs isn't the bite eager dog you used to see in the field, allthough they are still nasty when needed.

I think it is like in every sport. A responsible owner will get a good result being a controlled dog. People you wouldn't even give a hamster out of risk that they would make it a raging ball of fur get an uncontrolled dog. These last ones usually don't get far in the sport, but they create a bad image for the sport.

I don't think that this should be a delicate subject, because when trained properly this is an AWSOME sport !!!

i like this answer , as someone who is involved in Schutzhund and PSA my opinion is how you train , the temperment of the given dog ,your personal goals , have more to do with wheather your dog would protect you than any venue of training . its a sport my girl loves to work as much any dog likes the venue you work in . i would say that the goal of getting a protection dog from training these in protection sports is not all that common . its a bonus that can happen with the proper training and the right dog and for that reason alone the answer to your question would be no . in any dog sport there are rules and standards in place to insure that the dogs particapating are stable well adjusted dogs where the obedience and control are judged very tightly , where as in a PPD there are no standards to which they are held . of course there are great dog trainers and people who train PPD's that are as safe and reliable as anyone but i think it unfair to lump them together because in my opinion its apples and oranges . i love watching my girl work its what she was bred for the same as when my cow dog works cattle . i joined this forum because i was amazed with "nibbles" a 10 year old mali thats was doing tricks before his turn on the feild and kind of took the 2 posts in this section personal i am no expert by anyone's standards but i feel the need to defend protection sports after reading them i encourage everyone to go out and see for yourself what we do you would be suprised how similar we all train and how small a part of the sport that is grip stuff . i am personally offering anyone who is in northern california to come out and form your opinions for yourself - based on what you see not what you hear - i will even buy lunch

 

[running_dog]

A responsible owner will get a good result being a controlled dog. People you wouldn't even give a hamster out of risk that they would make it a raging ball of fur get an uncontrolled dog.

My first dwarf hamster was a raging ball of fur without any help from me