Lin-zee's Latest Trick

[tigerlily46514]

//", eventually, they would come to fear the clicker, because of the pain it caused."//

Most dogs happily hold up their heads to have their prong collars applied, and can even wiggle their tails and show enthusiasm when being choked.
dogs ARE tolerant,
no question of it.


but just try clicking a loud clicker by your OWN ears OUCH!!
and just give a thought.
but, it's your dog!

 

[tigerlily46514]

On this thread,
Pawtential Unleashed recommends these slim "bug clickers" which look like they'd fit in a pocket nicely,
and are only like 5 for $2 or something
http://www.dogtrickacademy.com/members/forums/threads/fun-question.4921/page-2

 

[DaniG]

"ah, i only begin intermittant reinforcement after my dog solidly knows the trick.
but, that's just me."

I take that extra step to ensure that they do solidly know the trick, and are not just doing it because there is a treat in my hand. I find that I am able to get them to perform the trick faster, more accurately, and more solidly by doing it in this fashion. But that is MY personal training style, which has worked out fabulously for the dogs that I have trained. They do say that the only thing that 2 dog trainers will agree on is that a third is wrong .

And, I did hold it right up to my ear and click it. It did not hurt my ear. Like I said - I do believe that the computer is amplifying the sound. That, and like I said, if it was HURTING her, then she WOULD develop a fear from it, and not come running and demanding a session.

 

[tigerlily46514]

Yes, i fade the LURE, too! rofl, yes, of course!
we have to do that!

i just do not fade the REWARDS til my dog has solidly learned the trick. when you said you fade out to "intermittant reinforcement" i thought you meant the reward, not the lure. sorry!

//"And, I did hold it right up to my ear and click it. It did not hurt my ear."//

oh good then! whew!

and lol, i am STILL learning how to train dogs, always more to learn,

even though my dog is doing tricks, doggie dancing, agility, heelwork, etc, i still have to learn more and more!! i'm still learning! i hope i always do keep learning.

and there was a time, i thought using a clicker was unnecesary,
cuz i was doing fine without it,
but, turns out,

the others were right!! even though my dog was doing fabulous, i found out,
i can do even better and better! who knew?
i can still learn about new things and new ideas to consider.

 

[tigerlily46514]

//"That, and like I said, if it was HURTING her, then she WOULD develop a fear from it,"//

you'd think,
but look at dogs and their prong collars..

and creatures can be rewarded to overcome fears,
with good treats:

 

[DaniG]

"i just do not fade the REWARDS til my dog has solidly learned the trick. when you said you fade out to "intermittant reinforcement" i thought you meant the reward, not the lure. sorry!"

No problem, I can see where you got confused. I was just saying that that is the step I take PRIOR to intermittent reinforcement. So basically, I will use the lure as the reward, then fade the food lure by "intermittent luring" I guess would be the best way to term it? basically using the same hand motion with no treat in it on occasion, once that has faded THEN I move to intermittent reinforcement (at which point the behavior would be solid). Again, its certainly not everyone's style, and I know of lots of trainers who don't do things that way (and would probably think less of me for doing it that way), but that is how I've been doing it for the past several years and that has been what has worked best for me.

And I won't disagree that dogs ARE tolerant. I won't get into prong collars other than they are one of the most misunderstood training tools on the market (I also feel as though I must mention that I do not use or encourage the use of a prong collar). I will not get into further discussion on the topic, as the discussion often gets too emotional, and I am just not up for that.

However, one training franchise in particular comes to mind, who happen to use shock collars and claim that they are using them "positively" by pairing the shock with food. Watching those dogs you see all the classic signs of stress, at least in the videos I have watched (I have only watched a few because they make me that uncomfortable). In the one video in particular I am thinking of (which I can't seem to find, it is from a while ago and they have posted at least hundreds of videos since and I don't have the stomach to sift through them all) as the trainer is demonstrating how he pairs the shock with food, the dog is panting excessively, not making eye contact, and yawns at least once during the video.

If she was showing ANY signs of stress, I would ABSOLUTELY agree with you that my clicker is too loud. And I have seen a handful dogs that show those signs of stress when a clicker was too loud for them, but the key is that they show SOME kind of stress to indicate that the noise is making them uncomfortable - ESPECIALLY in the beginning before that association is solid.