Possible Puppy.

[jordyquint]

I am possibly getting a border collie puppy in the fall. My dad is kind of wishy-washy about it though. I will be a senior in high school, but I feel confident that I will be able to care for a needy, high energy puppy.

He thinks I can handle it too, he just doesn't want another dog in the house.

The puppies would be ready in September, so he'd only be living with my dad for eight months, if I move out right away... but even if I don't and I move out in say June/July, he'd be with him for ten months.

He mentioned getting me a puppy for graduation, but I'd rather have a slightly "grown-up" puppy/dog than an eight week old puppy. Know what I mean?

I plan to compete in agility (of course!), flyball, disc, SAR, possibly dock diving and I know we'll do herding.

I'm really not positive I'm going to college... All I know right now is I'm going to pursue my writing, dog training, and photography career.

Any ideas to help sway his mind to my direction? He knows I can do it, I know I can do it. He just doesn't want to live with the pup for 8/10 months... I am positive though, if I get the pup and he sees everything I'm doing with it, he wouldn't care how long I live with him because he'd love the dog. haha

I am giving him a presentation tomorrow and I also wrote him a letter explaining everything.

 

[tigerlily46514]

//He mentioned getting me a puppy for graduation, but I'd rather have a slightly "grown-up" puppy/dog than an eight week old puppy. Know what I mean?//


oh boy, do i EVER know what you mean!! rofl, oh boy!! Getting a puppy, and then possibly leaving it for your father to raise, who may or may not be either skilled nor interested in the 24/7 effort req'd for some puppies, seems like a set-up for disaster, imo. There are knowledgable, committed ppl here, who very very very much wanted a puppy, yet, several will admit right out loud, there were times they were ready to pull their hair out in frustration. PUPPIES ARE NOT FOR EVERYONE!!! HAVING AN INFANT DOG IN YOUR WORLD DOES NOT FIT INTO EVERYONE'S LIFESTYLE.

I've had relatives who ached for a puppy, yet, went partially insane for a few months trying to train their puppy, I even worried it was damaging the bonding to some extent for a while. PUPPIES ARE IRRESISTIBLY CUTE, BUT, THEY ARE MONTHS AND MONTHS AND MONTHS OF WORK, imo.

since you ASKED,
I AM SO 'FOR' rescuing an adult dog, instead of a puppy. That's my vote!!

An adult dog potty trains almost instantly, if he is not already potty trained. Potty training some puppies takes months....and months....(true, some ppl do this faster, but many ppl take months to successfully train a puppy to just NEVER pee in the house.) Me, i have zero urge to step in poo in my own house, nor am i up for cleaning up pee or poop off of my carpets or floors every few hours ....for months..


An adult dog, is far less likely to chew up your cell phone and favorite shoes the way a puppy might til he is past is "chew evvvverything" stage. An adult dog has both more ability to learn/understand the concept of shoes are no-nos, as well as more self control than a puppy has, to resist chewing your table legs off.
true, there are exceptions, and some puppy owners will pipe up, "my puppy never did that" but there are plenty of others who could say their puppy was a chew monster. And it's true, some adult dogs are still chew monsters, but,
overall, the chances of your possesssions being chew-free, are much better with an adult dog.


A puppy can whine all night long. One or two nights, it's almost kinda sweet. After a week or two, of trying to do school work when you've had no sleep, it can get old. Adult dogs don't cry at night cuz they miss their moms.


A puppy can't be left home alone too long, especially while potty training. Much as you adore your puppy, there will be events you can't bring him to, and these events can last for hours and hours. An adult dog will happily greet you with a waggy tail and clean carpet.


A puppy has razor sharp teeth, like needles!!!! and will bite your fingers and toes, and is more likely to do so, if taken from his momma and siblings before 12 weeks old. Teaching an infant baby dog to stop doing this, is not as easy as you'd think....ouch! ouch! ouch! ouch! for a long time. Adult dogs won't do that, and the very few who do, are much easier to tell what you want/don't want than an infant is.

Teaching agility and frisbee to some puppies is a lot harder than to most adult dogs, if that is your goal. Many experts think puppies should not be jumping til they are one or two years old anyway, to protect their still-soft hip joints, etc.

Many puppies can be a lot harder to train to walk in a loose leash walk, and sadly, some of these puppies don't get walked then, cuz owner gets too tired of the nonstop pulling. i have some real life friends who don't walk their dogs. Teaching an adult dog to not pull on walks is not what i'd call "easy", but, it's apparently far far easier than trying to teach a short att'n span infant to not pull. We recently had a thread on this, with a very knowledgable dog lover who is quite skilled at dog training, mention her surprise at how much harder some puppies are to train, vs, adult dogs.

for real, please listen to me here!! and again, THAT was from a very very skilled dog trainer!!
but an adult dog is easier to train. (usually anyway, many of us here think so).

A puppy is total mystery.
No, you can NOT tell what kind of adult the puppy will be, by looking at his parents.
A puppy can grow up to be a shy dog, even when his parents were both happy, outgoing dogs. Some shy dogs can even escalate to being aggressive to strangers.

A puppy can grow up to be a dog-aggressive dog, even if his parents were not. Even if you raised him perfectly, there are genetic abnormal dogs who will be persistantly dog aggressive for life, and it doesn't show up til about 9 mos old.

Genetic shyness, and lifelong dog-aggression, can strike any breed.

A puppy can grow up to be higher energy, more impulsive, lower energy, more or less friendly than his parents were. You may want a running partner, and end up with a dog who is just not up for it, even if he is a border collie, it can happen. My BC can't run that far, and although he is high energy, he'd not be a good match for a distance runner.
ALL DOGS ARE UNIQUE INDIVIDUALS.

An adult dog, you can meet him and see who he is. An adult dog is NOT nearly the mystery box that all puppies are.
Shockingly, not all border collies have urge to herd especially now that the breed is AKC recognized, BCs are now being bred for looks, not ability. No way to tell for sure, in a puppy, if he will have the eye or not, but, it's hard to miss in an adult border collie.

If you choose to get an adult dog who is living with foster family ("in rescue" as opposed to dog pound dogs)
that foster family can and will tell you all about the dog. Does he have the eye?
Is this dog okay home alone? or will he bark the entire time and eat the sofa?

Is this dog cool with kids? cats? other dogs? men? hamsters? bunnies?
Is this dog an escape artist?
Is he a demanding hyper maniac who needs constant attention?
Is he a sluggish, very low energy dog?
Is this dog fearful? Is this dog okay with strangers? Is this dog bark a lot, or chew up your home? Is this dog have any fears i should know about? Is this dog going to like frisbee (my border collie hates frisbee!)
or is he energetic and great for agility? Is he obsessive, like chase light beams? Does he chase cars? Any issues i should know about?
and most importantly with a BorderCollie=
HOw much exercise does this particular dog need to be sane?
(WORTH BEING AWARE, MOST BORDER COLLIES DO NOT TOLERATE BOREDOM AS WELL AS OTHER BREEDS, many BCs will be destructive if they get bored for too many days in a row. Other breeds can do that, too, but, it's almost guaranteed with many BCs) Many many ppl call border collies a lil bit "nutty", and some BCs are way more "nutty" if not kept busy enough.

Any breed
ANY BREED
can do the sports you list. Now herding, i think you'd have to go for a herding breed, but i am not positive.
but if you do not need herding,
ANY breed of dog can excell at all the games you listed above.

NOW MIND YOU, i am huge BC fan, oh am i ever!!
and if you DO have your heart set on a BC,
go for it!!!!!!!!!

but, i feel you have a right to know about what the BC's needs can be. DO DO READ EVERYTHING YOU CAN FIND ON BORDER COLLIES!!! AND KUDOS TO YOU FOR DOING SOME PRE-DOG RESEARCH!! WISH EVERYONE DID THAT!

 

[tigerlily46514]

Since joining DTA, i have become more aware of how many young ppl get a dog or puppy, but somewhere in the next 10 years or so, these same ppl end up leaving for college, getting an apt which won't allow pets, moving in with friends who might be allergic, falling in love or even marrying someone who dislikes or is allergic to dogs, move away and leave dog with parents who aren't interested in taking dog to agility, take jobs which involve travel or leaving the high energy dog home alone for 40+ hours a week, etc etc.

Your life right NOW might be great for a high energy breed BUT in 5 or 10 years from now, it might be different. I'm all FOR almost everyone having a dog! sure am!! But when a young person is considering a dog, it's only fair to the dog,
to evaluate honestly,
what your life will be like in 5 years...10 years....

as well as, honestly,
how often do you run? or roller blade or skate board or bike ride?
how often do you take big long hikes? how much time do you spend on computer, reading, watching tv, studying, etc. In college, besides the demands of classes, homework, finals(!), ---------there might be a partime job, dating, hanging out with friends, trips and vacations, etc etc.
NOT THAT IT CAN'T BE DONE, nope, but it takes a committed dog lover to make sure, in a set up like THAT, that the person IS truly energetic to make sure the high energy dog WILL get a few long daily walks, daily runs, plenty of training time, stuff to do,
and not just the leftover time.

it can be done, it can. but, it's worth honestly thinking over, anyway.

 

[tigerlily46514]

ALL THAT ASIDE,
i am very stoked for you to get a dog or puppy,
and so admire your efforts to convince your dad that you really DO want a young adult dog, vs. a puppy,
and wish you the BEST OF LUCK!!

DO GOOGLE "BORDER COLLIE RESCUE" + YOUR TOWN's name, or your state's name.


also, put your zip code in here, (and sort out the dogs by breed if you want to)
http://www.petfinder.com/index.html

GOOD LUCK, and hope anything i wrote can help you convince your dad to hear you on this?? It almost might be worth hearing why HE thinks a puppy is best, he might have some inaccurate ideas on why he wants you to raise a puppy?

Trust me, i can vouch,
as can 100s of other ppl here on DTA,
that an adult dog can and will bond to you like velcro. OH bayyyybee, let me tell you, you do NOT have to be the first human for a dog to latch like glue. No, not right on first day, nope, takes the adult dog a lil while to size you up and decide if you are trustable,
but you can just about spot the day the dog has decided you are "in"!!!

it's like watching a flower bloom open.

I even believe, sometimes, an adult dog latches even harder, cuz that dog has known a life where no one wanted him.

And if your dad says you have to raise the puppy yourself, to get the kind of behavior you want, well, i think an adult dog can be taught most anything you want him to learn.
HERE IS THREAD ON IT:

well darn, the thread is gone, can't find it in search or anything, sorry.

 

[tigerlily46514]

ah! found it!!!!!
Some of this thread, might be helpful to help convince your dad that getting an adult dog is an okay thing to do??

http://www.dogtrickacademy.com/members/forums/threads/dont-buy-a-dog-not-any-dog-at-all.3109/

 

[jordyquint]

Tigerlily, I see where you're coming with adopting an adult... but I also see a big opportunity with the puppy. Granted, I can do everything with an adult as I can for a puppy.

The puppy is coming from a working breeder. This breeder doesn't breed for looks, she breeds for working ability - all around, happy confident dogs, with an off-switch. My friend has a BC from the same breeder that she does agility and herding with.

My aunt has a BC/Aussie mix who she takes herding sometimes. I've lived around four BCs in my life (not personally mine, but friends and family), I absolutely adore them. I love their drive, I love their work ethic, I love their personalities. I've been wanting one for at least seven years and here's my chance.

I also understand where you're coming from with college or moving to an apartment... I see it happen in my town a lot. That's why I'm determined to not let it happen. In five-ten years, I see myself living out in the country pursuing dog training, writing, and photography. I love it and I will continue doing it.

 

[tigerlily46514]

OHhhh so sorry, i thought you did not want a puppy! i misunderstood you!


//but I'd rather have a slightly "grown-up" puppy/dog than an eight week old puppy.//


to me, a young adult dog starts at about 12 mos old,(?) Not sure where experts say a dog is now "young adult" though!! still, most of the points i make, on why a young adult dog, might be easier, than a 8 week old puppy,
are still true, to use to try to convince your father away from the infant puppy,
even if you are wanting a "grown up puppy/dog".(?)

WHY does he want you to raise up an infant baby dog, did he say??

and awesome that you DO know about BCs, sorry! i did not realize that either, by your post!!
sorry i was no help at all, and good luck with your poppa anyway!! to get him to go along with your idea of getting an "grown-up puppy/dog"

 

[bekah1001]

I raised three puppies and three litters of puppies and I'm in highschool but I love puppies and I'm not the type of person who freaks out when I have to clean up poop off the carpet. The only big problem I have is Brody and his problem with other dogs. Through the puppy stages I have gone through multiple sets of headphones, mostly my fault for leaving them out. All my dogs were awesome as puppies but than again they are golden retriever and aren't as high energy than border collies I believe.

 

[tigerlily46514]

//The only big problem I have is Brody and his problem with other dogs.//

i so understand THAT ONE!! When one adopts a dog older than 9 mos old, the chance of ending up with a dog-aggressive dog is reduced by like, 90%!! This genetic anomaly does not manifest til about 9 mos old. A few owners reports it at 7 or 8 mos old,
and few, not til 12 mos old, but onset of persistant, lifelong dog-aggression later than 12 mos old in an otherwise healthy dog who does love humans,(not shy) is pretty rare.

no way at all to tell in a puppy which one may grow up to manifest the dog aggression gene as he matures. The parents can be 'normal'. Both the dog-aggression gene, and the gene for shyness in dogs, is a recessive gene. (meaning, the parents can carry the gene, but not display it themselves, so parents can be 'normal' dogs). It's rarely more than one or two of such dogs in a litter, their siblings are fine.
Most breeders are unaware they are cranking out shy dogs or DA dogs, and if you did call them when dog is 9 mos old, and report the dog is dog-aggressive, they are usually unaware that persistent, lifelong dog-aggression IS genetic,
and the breeder will tell you it's your fault. (not socialized properly, neglected, etc etc, 'something' you did 'caused it'). Most owners themselves also believe it's "their fault" in some way, and never ever even report it to the breeder anyway.

Now, genetically shy dogs, you CAN detect in the litter box, if you look for it, but you can NOT spot the dog-aggressive dogs in the litter box. And the 2 genetic anomalies are NOT the same.



Most DA dogs do love humans, or, can be brought to love humans, if they don't already. DA dogs just don't like most unknown dogs.

Most shy dogs do get on well with other dogs, or, can be brought to get on well with other dogs, if they don't already. Shy dogs just don't like most unknown humans. (shyness has a spectrum, from mild to severe, but DA dogs are all pretty much a lot the same as each other).




Either type of dog CAN develop some spillover aggression to the 'other' target, especially if the dog is abused or neglected, but, usually, a secondary, 'other' target, {IF it ever develops}, is not impossible to cure completely.
Also, if you get a DA dog and shy dog, living together side by side, sometimes they sort of imitate each other's target,
then you have a DA dog who also reacts to strangers,
or a shy dog who also reacts to unknown dogs. THAT'S really difficult to sort out and manage, when the two types of dogs live together!!!

but anyway,
It's two different neurobiologic disorders, with 2 different, primary basic 'targets' for reactions.

 

[tigerlily46514]

sorry for derail.

 

[jordyquint]

Tigerlily, I think I should emphasize more. haha

What I'm trying to say is that I'd like to raise a puppy now (in the next few months), so then WHEN I move out of my parent's house in May-June, I'd have an eight month old puppy that knew his/her basic commands, was house trained, etc. than just moving out and my parents getting one for me.

I'm not saying I wouldn't have time for a puppy then (I'll obviously have an eight month old dog with me if I get this puppy that still needs work to do), I'm just saying I think getting a dog NOW would be easier than getting a dog LATER, right after graduation like my parents suggested.

I hope that made sense.

Thanks!

 

[tigerlily46514]

OHhhh, i'm so sorry, i totally completely misunderstood! sorry, i have my moments where i am dense as bricks, sorry.

You DO WANT an infant baby dog,
but you and your dad disagree with WHEN to get the infant baby dog, is that right?
ohhhhh, i'm so so sorry, i totally misunderstood!! now i will crawl away under the rug and hide!! sorry!

i can see your point, i can see how having extra hands around, and a known schedule, that you have now,
could indeed, maybe make raising an infant dog easier, i get it now! And you DO sound committed and knowledgable about what you are getting into, i do think you can do it, too!!!

 

[tigerlily46514]

but otherwise, sorry, i'm with your dad, and i also find puppies very exhausting, sorry. I know, if my daughter brought an infant puppy in here, i know darn good and well, i'd get to clean up after the pup while she is at work or school, etc etc.

but, no doubt-----YOU are far better at training infant dogs, and removing stains in carpets, teaching pups not to chew up my good shoes, or the remote, etc,
than my daugher would be!!

 

[jordyquint]

Yes, my dad disagrees about when I should get it. The ONLY reason he doesn't want me to get it now is because he doesn't want to live with it... for the eight/ten months my pup is going to be there.

I clean up after and work with all three of the dogs now while everyone else lounges around the house, I think I can handle a high energy puppy too.

 

[southerngirl]

Giving a presentation is a great idea, that is how I convinced my mom that I could handle having my own dog. Not only does it inform your dad about the breed and how you would care for the puppy it shows you are really serious about keeping the pup from destroying to house. If the presentation doesn't work you can always pull the daddy card Maybe you could also let your dad know why you want to get the pup now. Getting one now(September) so when you move the pup will be 8months is a good idea cause moving to a new home with a young pup that's doesn't know the basics . Good luck on getting your dad to allow you to get the puppy. I personally love puppies and find it lots of fun raising them.

 

[bekah1001]

Makes me want to get another puppy I swear intsead of a crazy cat lady, I'd be a crazy dog lady when I'm older

 

[jordyquint]

haha, thank you guys!! It means a lot.

In my presentation, it says what I want to do with the dog and how I'm going to get it done, why I would benefit from a puppy now, where the puppy will go when I'm at school, and for each dog sport, I included a video of BC's competing in the sport. I also included puppy training videos, along with lots of BC puppy pics and pics of the dam and sire.

 

[bekah1001]

I plan to compete in agility (of course!), flyball, disc, SAR, possibly dock diving and I know we'll do herding.
.

Wow are you actually going to do all of that. That's awesome! I wish I could put my dogs in a sport but I have a lot of obedience training to do first! And what is SAR?

 

[bekah1001]

Lol nevermind I looked it up!

 

[dogcrazy]

I swear intsead of a crazy cat lady, I'd be a crazy dog lady when I'm older
I am going to be the same when I am older. Jordyquint I also want another dog (border collie) because whenever I go jogging, rollerblading I have to leave Carmel behind because she gets tired after the first meter! Also I have so much free and time Carmel gets 3 1 hour walks!