Me, Jenny, Bella & Zara
- Thread starter TiflovesBCs
- Start date
Dogster
Honored Member
The pictures you have of your dogs on facebook are great! The forest is just amazing!!
How long did the bath take? 
Unfortunately, I wouldn't be able to let my dog off leash there because:
A) She doesn't know how to come;
B) There are too many smells in a forest and even if she knew how to come, she wouldn't.
How long did the bath take? Unfortunately, I wouldn't be able to let my dog off leash there because:A) She doesn't know how to come;
B) There are too many smells in a forest and even if she knew how to come, she wouldn't.
TiflovesBCs
Experienced Member
Thanks. Bath took forever as I had 3 to wash lol especially zara as she loves mud. All our dogs respond when you call them offleash and they love running in woods especially if there is a river running through it. If Jenny spots any slip of water she is soon in it. lol My dog tend to run together rather than go off and explore. They tend to stick close. Always have us in view.The pictures you have of your dogs on facebook are great! The forest is just amazing!!
A) She doesn't know how to come;
B) There are too many smells in a forest and even if she knew how to come, she wouldn't.
TiflovesBCs
Experienced Member
Found some pics of Bella and Jenny all dirty
Jenny had a clay bath.
Muddy Bella!
Bella head to toes in mud - thats a huge really swamp mud bit shes running through - I was like No Bella get out lol.
Told you they liked water! lol
Jenny had a clay bath.
Muddy Bella!
Bella head to toes in mud - thats a huge really swamp mud bit shes running through - I was like No Bella get out lol.
Told you they liked water! lol
TiflovesBCs
Experienced Member
We dont have dog parks here. Wish we did.Your dogs form a pack!
Dogster
Honored Member
I don't have any muddy pictures of Shivon; she doesn't like to get dirty THAT much.LOL!! When I went to Algonquin park this summer, she was digging holes with her BFF, Carmel (dogcrazy's dog). Here's some pictures:
Shivon moving to much for me to get a good shot
Shivon in her stalking position
She loves snow though
She eats it too!!
When I went to Algonquin park this summer, she was digging holes with her BFF, Carmel (dogcrazy's dog). Here's some pictures:Shivon moving to much for me to get a good shot
Shivon in her stalking position
She loves snow though
She eats it too!!
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TiflovesBCs
Experienced Member
Cute. I need to find someone in my area that has dogs. So I can get Bella use to other dogs and Zara then they can learn other dogs are fun. No one I know has dogs 
Mine like the snow too i think i have some pics somewhere
Found some
Jenny trying to roll some snow as if it was her ball lol.
Mine like the snow too i think i have some pics somewhere
Found some
Jenny trying to roll some snow as if it was her ball lol.
TiflovesBCs
Experienced Member
It was up to their chest that snow in places they had to bounce run lol. Nope no neighbourhood dogs either that I know of. Like I said we don't have dog parks here although I think they are a great idea.Adorable!!!! We only have about 2cm of snow here. It's weird how nobody you know has dogs. Maybe your neighbours have dogs.A lot of people in my area own dogs. There are lots of dog parks, so we always meet people there. Most of the people we know have dogs too.
tigerlily46514
Honored Member
//"I need to find someone in my area that has dogs. So I can get Bella use to other dogs and Zara then they can learn other dogs are fun. No one I know has dogs "//
Tif, bringing dogs with possible issues, to hang out with other dogs or humans,
is not the way to help them get over it.
It's like the spider story.
IF IF IF indeed, IF your dogs DO have actual inborn aggression issues,(?)
putting them beside other dogs will not help them, not anymore than throwing spiders onto someone afraid of spiders will help that person "get over it" or "learn to deal with it" or whatever.
Approaching aggression management with some knowledge and practice under your belt
with EASIER THINGS like
helping desensitize your dogs to seeing the leash,
to going up the stairs without being bitten, etc,
WILL help strengthen your ability and skills
and your dogs trust and self control
which are sooooooooo needed to help desensitize your dogs to unknown dogs and unknown ppl, ----------------which is way harder than getting dogs calm around feet on stairs.
It CAN be done, you CAN help reduce their aggression,
but
just setting up doggie playdates
does not help,
and may even further feed that mental loop in their brain...and, you may end up with injured dogs or injured ppl.
Tif, you need professional help with this, you do, it's wayyyyyyyyyyyy more than just putting them next to other dogs and unknown humans.
Sometimes, a person can get advice on this online, to get started in right direction, but since you have more than one thing going on here with more than one dog,
and your dogs even bite you sometimes,
i think getting some help is worthy idea. I so admire your trying to help your dogs become their best possible selves.
If you do have your dogs next to ppl, and some human gets bit, oh boy!!!! all kinds of trouble can follow. Legal troubles, medical bills, etc etc, even town ordinances for your dog to quarantined or worse.......Some really nice gal was here last month or two, and her dog was ordered to wear a muzzle by her town, and all her dog did was growl at someone!!! (every town is different maybe).
........HOpe you didn't mean it about throwing them all into same yard and hoping your dogs won't fight the other dogs or humans.
Hope you do get to a behaviorists, the sooner you start, the better the result of rehabbing dogs with issues. (IF indeed, IF your dogs have issues, they need a pro to eval them)
. the more months and years your dogs continue on their current path, the harder it may be to help them turn their aggression back down a bit.
Rehabbing aggressive dogs is maybe more involved than you may yet realize, Tif, so you won't want to set up doggie play dates yet, til they have had an evaluation and you got some advice on that. GOOD LUCK!!
"//Tif, bringing dogs with possible issues, to hang out with other dogs or humans,
is not the way to help them get over it.
It's like the spider story.
IF IF IF indeed, IF your dogs DO have actual inborn aggression issues,(?)
putting them beside other dogs will not help them, not anymore than throwing spiders onto someone afraid of spiders will help that person "get over it" or "learn to deal with it" or whatever.
Approaching aggression management with some knowledge and practice under your belt
with EASIER THINGS like
helping desensitize your dogs to seeing the leash,
to going up the stairs without being bitten, etc,
WILL help strengthen your ability and skills
and your dogs trust and self control
which are sooooooooo needed to help desensitize your dogs to unknown dogs and unknown ppl, ----------------which is way harder than getting dogs calm around feet on stairs.
It CAN be done, you CAN help reduce their aggression,
but
just setting up doggie playdates
does not help,
and may even further feed that mental loop in their brain...and, you may end up with injured dogs or injured ppl.
Tif, you need professional help with this, you do, it's wayyyyyyyyyyyy more than just putting them next to other dogs and unknown humans.
Sometimes, a person can get advice on this online, to get started in right direction, but since you have more than one thing going on here with more than one dog,
and your dogs even bite you sometimes,
i think getting some help is worthy idea. I so admire your trying to help your dogs become their best possible selves.
If you do have your dogs next to ppl, and some human gets bit, oh boy!!!! all kinds of trouble can follow. Legal troubles, medical bills, etc etc, even town ordinances for your dog to quarantined or worse.......Some really nice gal was here last month or two, and her dog was ordered to wear a muzzle by her town, and all her dog did was growl at someone!!! (every town is different maybe).
........HOpe you didn't mean it about throwing them all into same yard and hoping your dogs won't fight the other dogs or humans.
Hope you do get to a behaviorists, the sooner you start, the better the result of rehabbing dogs with issues.
(IF indeed, IF your dogs have issues, they need a pro to eval them). the more months and years your dogs continue on their current path, the harder it may be to help them turn their aggression back down a bit.
Rehabbing aggressive dogs is maybe more involved than you may yet realize, Tif, so you won't want to set up doggie play dates yet, til they have had an evaluation and you got some advice on that. GOOD LUCK!!
tigerlily46514
Honored Member
CUTE dog pics!!
TiflovesBCs
Experienced Member
Bella will never bite she is more flight than fight she would rather run and hide. I'm not on about throwing her in the deep end with another dog but one that she could work or be around at a distance she feels comfortably with regular and then progress as she gets more comfortable. Not confronting the problem isnt going to help her become more comfortable or overcome her fear avoidance isn't going to make her any less fearful.
There is this dog trainer in our area that we met once at the park with just having her and zara on the leash and ignoring her but talking to us and avoideing looking at her she became calmer he had a dog with him at the time.
It;s kinda like with my brother when he comes to visit first time she was hidden behind us, next vistit she kept her distance but felt comfortable enough to sit and go to sleep next to me, even if i was sitting next to my brother. Aslong as he didn't make any sudden movements she was fine. and he could even stroke zara on his second visit.
There is this dog trainer in our area that we met once at the park with just having her and zara on the leash and ignoring her but talking to us and avoideing looking at her she became calmer he had a dog with him at the time.
It;s kinda like with my brother when he comes to visit first time she was hidden behind us, next vistit she kept her distance but felt comfortable enough to sit and go to sleep next to me, even if i was sitting next to my brother. Aslong as he didn't make any sudden movements she was fine. and he could even stroke zara on his second visit.
tigerlily46514
Honored Member
Tif, ANY dog can bite.
Any dog. It is great Bella has never bitten anyone, this is a good sign,
but it is not a guarantee, that a dog who does run up to growl/bark at strangers and is generally afraid of strangers, wouldn't bite. This is called "fear biting". It is not unusual in shy dogs.
Zara, getting aggressive about other dogs there, could also bite a person,
This is called "re-directed" aggression.
It's also why Zara bites her housemates when she gets honked off about the stairs or the leashes, it's "re-directed" aggression.and Zara could definitely end up in a dog fight, if the perfect storm of wrong dog personalities was at the play date.
Tif,do you realize this is a risk? That you may end up with a hurt Zara, or another hurt dog? from a dog fight busting out?
You don't "confront" dog aggression by putting an possibly aggressive dog next to dogs. But, many many many many ppl think this same thing.
Just like helping someone "confront" their phobia of spiders, by throwing spiders on them, is not best approach to help them.
All i can do is warn you, Tif, what you do, of course, is up to you.
But "confronting" things is NOT how we help dogs with fears.
it's not. and it's dangerous. I hope you at least warn any other particpants, that your dogs may have aggression issues, it'd only be fair. They have a right to know this. Make sure no children are anywhere around, too. Dog fights can move around quickly, and lil kids get hurt easily.
Any dog. It is great Bella has never bitten anyone, this is a good sign,
but it is not a guarantee, that a dog who does run up to growl/bark at strangers and is generally afraid of strangers, wouldn't bite. This is called "fear biting". It is not unusual in shy dogs.
Zara, getting aggressive about other dogs there, could also bite a person,
This is called "re-directed" aggression.
It's also why Zara bites her housemates when she gets honked off about the stairs or the leashes, it's "re-directed" aggression.and Zara could definitely end up in a dog fight, if the perfect storm of wrong dog personalities was at the play date.
Tif,do you realize this is a risk? That you may end up with a hurt Zara, or another hurt dog? from a dog fight busting out?
You don't "confront" dog aggression by putting an possibly aggressive dog next to dogs. But, many many many many ppl think this same thing.
Just like helping someone "confront" their phobia of spiders, by throwing spiders on them, is not best approach to help them.
All i can do is warn you, Tif, what you do, of course, is up to you.
But "confronting" things is NOT how we help dogs with fears.
it's not. and it's dangerous. I hope you at least warn any other particpants, that your dogs may have aggression issues, it'd only be fair. They have a right to know this. Make sure no children are anywhere around, too. Dog fights can move around quickly, and lil kids get hurt easily.
tigerlily46514
Honored Member
Yes, i thought Bella was the shy dog,
and Zara was the dog-aggressive dog.
Dog-aggressive dogs usually LOVE humans,
and shy dogs often get on well with other dogs.
Either kind of dog,
can also begin or learn to target a secondary target,
so you'd then end up with a dog with both targets,
but, the secondary targets are usually easier to rehab out.
Zara is more aggressive about dogs, not ppl, right? and Bella is more fearful about ppl,right?
so you should be able to help Zara learn to love ppl, that can be done. Zara's dog thing might be more challenging.---IF IF IF Zara is even dog-aggressive,(?) it is hard to sort it all out. some dogs, when raised side by side with dogs with issues, can seem to be influenced by the other dogs's issues now and then, too. It's hard to sort out, really, esp via email.
BUT THE GOOD PART IS,
you have some great experience seeing how a dog can be helped to be calm, to become his best self!!
whatever you decide to do, it seems only fair to warn others that your dogs *might* have aggression issues, if you decide to "confront" your dogs fears in doggie playdates.
and Zara was the dog-aggressive dog.
Dog-aggressive dogs usually LOVE humans,
and shy dogs often get on well with other dogs.
Either kind of dog,
can also begin or learn to target a secondary target,
so you'd then end up with a dog with both targets,
but, the secondary targets are usually easier to rehab out.
Zara is more aggressive about dogs, not ppl, right? and Bella is more fearful about ppl,right?
so you should be able to help Zara learn to love ppl, that can be done. Zara's dog thing might be more challenging.---IF IF IF Zara is even dog-aggressive,(?) it is hard to sort it all out. some dogs, when raised side by side with dogs with issues, can seem to be influenced by the other dogs's issues now and then, too. It's hard to sort out, really, esp via email.
BUT THE GOOD PART IS,
you have some great experience seeing how a dog can be helped to be calm, to become his best self!!
whatever you decide to do, it seems only fair to warn others that your dogs *might* have aggression issues, if you decide to "confront" your dogs fears in doggie playdates.
TiflovesBCs
Experienced Member
Nope Bella is as fearful of other dogs as she is people. But for her I feel its just fer of the unknown if introduced in the correct manner to other dogs and people I feel she can overcome this. She just needs to start with a calm unknown dog and person. All I was saying was I wish I knew someone who owned a dog that I could basically train Bella with regularly to help her learn that dogs and people aren't that scary. They would also be aware of her problems. Rather than starting to try to get her used to other dogs or people by being around different people like in the parks etc.
Zara is as bad with both but worse when shes on the lead. Out of all the dogs she is the one who is more likely to bite which is why we alway make sure we have a saftey muzzle with us just incase whenever she goes to the park. She can be a bit of a bully to Bella and anoyance to our older dog Jenny
tigerlily46514
Honored Member
Keyword there, in your post above, "if introduced in the correct manner"
I so agree, you can help reduce the aggressive behavior in your dogs, have much hope, i think you are right! yes, you are!
but, you might benefit from professional help with trainers who have actual experience and success with such issues, helping to show you how to help this problem get reduced, not just doggie-playdates.
I so agree, you can help reduce the aggressive behavior in your dogs, have much hope, i think you are right! yes, you are!
but, you might benefit from professional help with trainers who have actual experience and success with such issues, helping to show you how to help this problem get reduced, not just doggie-playdates.
TiflovesBCs
Experienced Member
I wouldnt say Bella is aggressive at all. Not like Zara. Zara is the unpredictable one. She doesnt even get close to the people she barks at and she never barks at other dogs.
And you are also misinderstanding me - I never said I was just gonna make her confront her fears I was saying it would be good if I could get together to train with someone else with another dog (as I don't personally know anyone with a dog where at any point in training could I do this). At some point she is going to need to see people infact my old trainer wanted me to have a person I know come round for a visit and just sit ignoring her and such. So not doing anything isn't going to make the issues go away anyway.
If I knew someone with a dog it would have been better to train with them thn trying it around different unknown people that happen to be there for example.
And you are also misinderstanding me - I never said I was just gonna make her confront her fears I was saying it would be good if I could get together to train with someone else with another dog (as I don't personally know anyone with a dog where at any point in training could I do this). At some point she is going to need to see people infact my old trainer wanted me to have a person I know come round for a visit and just sit ignoring her and such. So not doing anything isn't going to make the issues go away anyway.
If I knew someone with a dog it would have been better to train with them thn trying it around different unknown people that happen to be there for example.
TiflovesBCs
Experienced Member
I didnt mean play dates as in play but rather training and getting her used to seeing someone and another dog and not reacting as such. etc.
tigerlily46514
Honored Member
I'm sorry i misunderstood you, after saying you wish you had friends with dogs for your dogs to play with, that you meant what some of us call "doggie play dates". Sorry!
and when you said why you thought my urging you to get some help---- not just set up doggie playdates,
you replied, //"Not confronting the problem isnt going to help her become more comfortable or overcome her fear avoidance isn't going to make her any less fearful."//
i did misunderstand.
sorry.
Knowing how to help a dog get used to seeing dogs or ppl and not react, is a bit of a trick.
Figuring it out on your own, or with your friends, might take a lot longer, but your behaviorists can help you sort out how to do it.
GOOD LUCK!
and when you said why you thought my urging you to get some help---- not just set up doggie playdates,
you replied, //"Not confronting the problem isnt going to help her become more comfortable or overcome her fear avoidance isn't going to make her any less fearful."//
i did misunderstand.
sorry.
Knowing how to help a dog get used to seeing dogs or ppl and not react, is a bit of a trick.
Figuring it out on your own, or with your friends, might take a lot longer, but your behaviorists can help you sort out how to do it.
GOOD LUCK!