I Love To Talk Nutrition!!

[tigerlily46514]

Ina, do look over the links Charmed Wolf posted, there is a link, or remark, about "contact me if your vet needs nutrition info". Maybe she is offering to contact the vet herself, (she is obviously incredibley knowledgable about dog nutrition) or, maybe she will send you a print out, not sure what that means.

I agree with you, most vets, maybe the overwhelming majority of vets, either do not know, or do not care (?) about dog nutrition. At all. Buddy just had his check up, and they did not even ask what he is being fed. (they did a year ago, but, shouldn't they ask each year?) AND I APPLAUD YOUR EFFORTS to try to educate your vet!! GO INA!!! I want a full report!!! I should probably think about doing the same, you make a really good point there!!!

I agree, that we humans should be attuned to our own bodies, i agree!! It is stunning how oblivious some ppl are to the signals their own body is sending. So many ppl seem unable to manage their own health and nutrition very well.

I do not completely trust either a child's nor a dog's ability to sense what is right/wrong to eat. (or my own, half the time, ha ha!!)
My dog would happily wolf down raisens, grapes, chocolate, etc, if he had a chance to. All would be poisonous to him. Buddy would LIVE on cheese and peanut butter alone, if allowed to.
Or dog treats, even lousy store bought dog treats, Buddy would probably eat the entire bag if we gave it to him. Vets get visits every day from dogs who have eaten pantyhose or other weird things. My sister's dog once devoured a 12 lb ham, in one sitting, and almost died. (he actually opened the fridge!!)

i think we have to monitor their nutrition FOR them, but, maybe your dog is unique. One thing we all know is, dogs ARE individuals!!!!

 

[Ina]

@Jean Marie, I wrote down the number with the contact details just in case my vet (a fairly young guy) needs additional convincing. We have to make an appointment for next week anyway because poor little Smokey should be neutered (not sure if he should or shouldn't have it done). Smokey also has a hernia where his belly button is supposed to be. So this needs to be attended to anyway, but my 3 boys don't want Smokeys balls to be cut (understandable with them being boys themselves).

Regarding the educating of the vet - I just can't help myself. If I can make a difference I will always give it my best shot. Looking the other way, or let's say taking the easy road is never an option for me. And I will be prepared before going there... printing all the reports on the different dog foods right now

With my kids I always kept it that way that if they eat their dinner they can have as much chocolate as they like afterwards. And I think because we do not make restrictions when it comes to chocolates they eat lot's and lot's of fruit. If you give my 11-year old a choice between a chocbar and a persimmon he will choose the fruit. Give the 7-year old a choice between chocolate and carrot sticks, he will go for the carrots. All my friends find this strange - however the principle worked for us and none of them are over- or underweight.

And for the dog - I won't offer anything unhealthy such as chocolate, raisins or grapes. Same as you wouldn't offer your kids drugs and alcohol. Smokey doesn't eat raw liver for example. It has to be fried or cooked. He won't eat more than this 1 egg per week and if you give him real fatty pork meat he will just walk away. I am not sure about all these prepacked dogtreats though ... wouldn't put my money on him not to gulp down the whole pack if he got the chance to
However, I found a couple of recipes for home made dog treats which I will try out. Even if it's not 100% healthy at least I know what I am feeding. The kids will love making cookies for the puppy and I have something in my pocket when going on walks.

Quote:
i think we have to monitor their nutrition FOR them, but, maybe your dog is unique. One thing we all know is, dogs ARE individuals!!!!


You are absolutely right there. Did you hear about that experiment where they try to clone the drug detection dogs? I wonder if a clone would REALLY be the same. It's the environment that made the dog what it is - not just genes???

I just love my little pup to bits - one day he will be squashed by LOVE

 

[tigerlily46514]

oh no, i'm sorry, i did not mean to imply i would offer poisonous stuff to my dog, oops! NOT the point i was making, at all, i was saying my dog could not be trusted to turn away food bad for him, and dogs do not always stop when they should either, like my sister's dog who almost died from eating a 12 lb ham in one sitting. I don't think dogs are good judges of what or how much to eat.

Ha, my kids are grown, but, i did it opposite of you. I never felt giving them candy was loving them, and never wanted junk food to seem a 'reward' at all, not ever, and we had no junk food in the house, no sodas, no candy,no weird colored cereals, no poptarts, no koolaide, no junk food of any kind, nope. So whatever they wanted to eat in my kitchen, WAS healthy!! ONe less thing to worry about--what ARE they eating out there?? Plus, i myself do not like junk food at the ready if i get munchies!! If there are no chips, i wont' eat any! Simple!
I guess i've always been a nutrition nazi! I just never thougth about my previous dogs nutrition!!How did i miss that?? for so long???
My kids are grown now, one is vegetarian, and both are fit as fiddles, both are runners,(one is in marathon next week) and both have bodies that could stop a clock, and very few cavities ever.
Guess either way--yours or mine, works out fine!

AND I LIKE YOUR ATTITUDE ON HELPING SPREAD THE WORD ON MOST DOG FOOD IS POISONOUS NIGHTMARE CRAPOLA!!!! I so so so agree with you!! I was thinking i might ask the vet, "What do you think i should feed Buddy?" and when he says Purina, hand him a print out?? ha ha, i want to hear how it goes, Ina!!!

 

[tigerlily46514]

and i agree 100% on store bought treats are almost invariabley crap, no matter what the package says, "healthy" or whatever, they are almost always rubbery globs of flour, sugar, salt, (dogs don't need salt) spices, and fake coloring and flavorings....yet, my dog would happily eat a whole bag!!! Buddy seems oblivious to any inner thing telling him what to eat, or how much to eat...

funny though, people who are so careful to buy good dog food, still buy store bought toxic crap for treats!!??

I make all my own dog treats, i got a good recipe, EVERY DOG i've given a batch to, goes crazy gagga nutter for them, no exceptions, even dogs whose owner say their dog doesn't like treats, LOVE my recipe. Their owners always demand the recipe, exclaiming how much their dog loved em.

And they only cost $6 for almost a whole month's worth!!

 

[J_Sinay]

I can't say I agree that dogs are totally carnivores. I think they are mostly, but do have a slight omnivorous bend. They shouldn't be fed lots of grains and what not, but they seem to do well on some fruits and veggies.

 

[srdogtrainer]

Lol just a funny rebuttal to the "if you're buying your food from a grocery store" comment. Homemade diets can be good, lol!

LOL! Yes I buy some of my 'dog food' at the grocery store...fruits, vegetables, meat, some dairy, etc.

 

[tigerlily46514]

Yes, me too!! I make all his treats, and supplement each meal with real meat on top...

what i actually said was
Ppl, if you are buying your dog food in a grocery store, it is crap
which i still agree with, when i buy carrots or meat, nowhere does that package say "dog food".

I can also buy human food in a grocery store for my dog, but, "dog food" bought inside a grocery store, is invariabley crappy dog food.
I suppose if i'd said, "buying your dog'S food" it'd be different. Or maybe is cultural difference, in US, "dog food" means bags or cans of food, which are labelled "dog food".

 

[Ina]

Actually I buy my dogs food at the grocery store. Every morning the employees go through the shelfs to check expiry dates. If the packaging indicates that the meat should be eaten within 2 days they drop the price by half. That's what I buy when I am in a hurry.
The better deal is when you speak to the butcher personally. Usually there are certain parts that don't sell very well or cut-offs and stuff. I always get a special.
I also found that you your dog needs a smaller quantity when feeding meat in comparison to food that comes out of a tin or kibble. And the very best about it all is that the poo in the garden disintegrates within 2 days and gets washed away with the rain. Processed dog food seems to stay in poo form forever and has to be scooped up ???

 

[tigerlily46514]

//"Actually I buy my dogs food at the grocery store"//

yeah, like i said above, dog'S food, is different term in USA, than "dog food". In USA, "dog food" is different than dog'S food.

Ina, i forgot, do you raw feed then? I'd like to try that again, last time he kept getting that 1 kind of worm from raw meat. He seemed fine, but, i do get him tested for worms, is how i found out. But the reports sound so so great, it makes sense to me. If i could afford it.

 

[Ina]

Yes, I feed mainly raw. Sometimes, if I get too much meat from the butcher and forget to freeze it I have to cook it. My mum also makes a lot of chicken soup and the kids don't want the meat. In that case Smokey gets the chicken meat scraped from the bones as special treats (don't want to give him cooked chicken bones).

I always get a full bag of chicken necks from the butcher - those I feed "as is". Apparently one of the butchers customers has a "charcoal grill" and doesn't want the necks ... good for us :-) And because the butcher met the puppy he knows who the food is for - makes quite a difference! I find sometimes T-Bone steaks in there When we go to pick up food Smokey performs his tricks. Next time I have to bring the skateboard .. let's see if that earns him another T-Bone

 

[tigerlily46514]

INA, WHAT A GREAT STORY!!! I smiled so big, picturing the butcher slipping in a t-bone for Smokey!! I bet those necks are so good for Smokey to even figure out how to get the meat off of them, and i bet that type of gnawing and chewing and mental work is so good for him and his teeth.
Ina, good luck with the skateboard!!! rofl!!! YOu are too funny!!!

 

[sara]

Mouse gets necks too, and wings and legs. She doesn't worry about getting meat off, she just eats the bone too. RAW chicken bones are VERY good for dogs' teeth

 

[tigerlily46514]

my poor dog is getting left out of all that joy, isn't he?....i've got to retry this for him, it sounds so great, it makes so much sense!!!!

 

[bekah1001]

So now this has me worried about what I'm feeding my dog... so how do you start feeding your dog a raw diet

 

[sara]

I dont feed my dogs raw, I just give raw "chewies" I prefer feeding a quality kibble, but I do think the merits of raw can be great. So I give "Chewies" to Mouse. Scout and Zoe wont eat outside, and I wont feed raw meat in the house, Scout cant have chicken anyway. Oliver gets seriously sick from any protein that's different from what he gets (fish), I have yet to try Boo, but Mouse eats anything and everything with a stomach of iron, so she's allowed to have different stuff.

I'm obsessed with keeping my dogs thin, and feeding them the best I can. I feed grain-free dog food, as I dont believe in grains for dogs. All kibble whether or not it has grains, has to have a starch to keep it together, therefor pea starch, or potato is used in grain-free formulas. Starches work like sugars, and too much starch makes for a fat dog, that's why grocery store brands of dog food "seem" to fill up dogs, as they gain weight. And why most dogs on a vegitarian dog food are fat. Fat is not healthy. Kids can get fat fed on a diet of Kraft Dinner and candy, and that's all brands like Alpo, Kibbles and Bits, and Ol' Roy are to a dog, sugar and starch, with a little protein flavoring.

I feed nothing with rendered meats in it, and stick to freeze dried treats (cheese, Liver, Fish and Chicken) 99% of the time, when training, my dogs are just getting dog food... especially Oliver as he gets so sick from anything different, so if I dont want stinky, fish smelling hands and clothes, I feed dog food, though that still smells like fish, just a little less offensive.

My dogs all LOVE their food, and will work very hard for it. they dont work harder for other treats, as their kibble is very rewarding to them... but my training sessions are often done at meal times, with their meals, so the dogs are hungry. The only thing more reinforcing for Oliver is a game (ball, tug) so he'll work like crazy for his ball, but if I'm teaching him something new, it's gotta be kibble or treats, as he's a little too crazy for the ball or tug.

 

[charmedwolf]

Bekah- The way I transition dogs to eating RAW is a little bit different then others do. I like to fast dogs for at least a day in order to completely get the kibble out the dog's system. Kibble digest differently then raw bones/meat does and it can cause complications if combined together.

Chicken is the best meat to start with and yes, raw chicken bones are perfectly acceptable to be eaten as long as they are raw. But truely, everything can be fed.
Whole Eggs, Beef (any parts, except dense weight-bearing bones), Liver (any species), Kidney (any species), Green tripe, Heart (any species), Spleen (any species), Sweetbreads (any species), Lung (any species), Whole rabbits (or parts), Chicken (whole or parts), Turkey (whole or parts), Quail, Pheasant, Duck, Goose, Pork, Lamb, Goat, Deer, Elk, Bison, Pronghorn antelope, Ostrich, Kangaroo, Emu, Whole fish (avoid fresh salmon), Canned fish (use sparingly), Rats, Squirrels, Mice and Moose are commonly feed.

The biggest thing is the concept over balance over time. Usually over the week 80% meat (can also include the heart which is a meaty organ), 10% bones and 10% organs (half is liver) is fed. 2-3% of the app. adult weight of the dog or ideal weight.

http://www.rawlearning.com/index.html is a great site if you want to look around. I'd also be happy to answer any questions or help with anything.

 

[bekah1001]

So is it or isnt ok to feed your dog raw meat and kibble

 

[Ina]

Bekah, there are a lot of different views on the subject.

My personal opinion: The more meat you can give to your dog the better. Raw meat contains more essential elements than cooked meat. During the heating process certain things get destroyed. But cooked meat is still better than cheap kibble food. Further up in this thread are links to sites that compare commercial kibble foods and their nutritional value. There are some really good kibble foods available, but they are just as expensive than buying cheap meat at the local butcher.
However some of the kibble food out there is simply rubbish. I don't want my dog to eat other animals nor do I want to handle kibble that contains the matter.
Instead of giving my dog stuffed kongs to be entertained, I give him a raw bone. Keeps him busy for hours. (However if it rains then I use small pieces of meat, stuff his kongs and put them in the freezer - again, it takes him an hour of happy chewing to get the meat out.)


I don't see the feeding matter as a black & white subject. Personally I have started feeding 80% raw because it's cheaper and more fun for the dog. He just won't touch kibble anymore.


Same goes for dog treats. Reading the ingredient list I am very selective. On weekends I make the liver cookies - enough to last till next weekend. But I also feed leftover hotdogs, cheese - well, anything that isn't "unhealthy" and is easy for training purposes.

 

[Lexy88]

Fascinating. I am looking into this further... As the kibble I feed certainly does not match the ratings in any of the sites posted!

 

[Lexy88]

I have just harrassed the NZ company by email for more in depth information on the ingredients and nutrition information Will wait and see..