How Not To Greet A Dog

[Dogster]

Adults usually come and just pet my dog , while kids (usually ages 5-10) will be like ``may I please pet your dog?``. But then nobody will ask ``can my dog greet your dog``

YES!!!!! Although not many kids actually WANT to pet my dog (LOL my dog is scary) Adults almost NEVER ask to pet my dog. The trigger for her to start jumping at them is when they look at her and have the "oh, what a cute baby" face. I think kids these days are taught to ask, a lot of adults (non dog owners, mostly...) just take it with a grain of salt.

 

[tigerlily46514]

ey, Dogcrazy, i wonder, i wonder, if you could get desensitize Carmel to having her head touched? the way i did with Buddy's chin?
You might not be able to, who knows,
but, maybe, maybe, you could. If you *could* get Carmel to accept ppl touching her head,
and ppl leaning over Carmel,
slowly,
at a subthreshold level,
that'd sure make the world a happier place for Carmel. Most ppl with dogs who do that, (fear having head touched/leaned over, etc) i'd think, "Well, probably that is just how it is, nothing can be done."
but, since it is YOU, Dogcrazy, maybe YOU could attempt it, cuz YOU are pretty darn adept at dog training, it might be easier for YOU to try this,
than it would be for some dog owners.


slowly, in all positive, NON STRESSFUL, /SUBthreshold way for Carmel.

Like this: (even though Carmel is not shy dog, neither is mine, but, this is the techinque i used to get Buddy to stop hating having his under-his-chin touched) IT WORKED GREAT. I followed this video, step by step, focusing, in my case, on my dog's CHIN.

There is a part in this video, about dogs who dislike having their HEADS touched:

 

[tigerlily46514]

^i was just thinking, IF IF IF possible,
it *might* be easier to train Carmel to like having her head touched, and to like having humans crouch down beside her,
than it will be to hope we can educate all the humans on how to act.

(in NONstressful method of desensitizing, i mean, NOT stressful to Carmel) If anyone can do it, Dogcrazy, it might be you.
and Dogster could be your backup volunteer, for when Carmel is advanced enough, to try having her head touched by someone else, and so on, slowly slowly helping Carmel expand her acceptance of having her head touched by multiple ppl, over time, in increments, etc.

 

[Dogster]

Sure!!!! Yup!!!! Great idea!!!!

 

[dogcrazy]

Great idea!!! I will practice because guests are coming over today and I can slowly practice close to school!

 

[tigerlily46514]

GOOD LUCK, Dogcrazy, and dont' be hard on yourself, if this is way more challenging than we *think* or hope it might be.

Sometimes, stuff looks so simple in a video, but, in real life, it's a LOT more challenging in real life. And do watch the video over and over, i always tend to pick up more stuff, the more times i watch kikopup in action.

and all dogs are unique individuals, so, if it turns out, that there is no way to get Carmel to ever "like" having her head touched, so be it. That's who Carmel is then.

and of course, i know i am preaching to the choir with you, but, this exercise should never ever be less than FUN for Carmel. Carmel herself gets to decide how far, how fast, etc, none of this should ever ever ever stress Carmel.
go real slow,
real slow, with your goal at all times being: Carmel is comfortable.

I don't think a pack of strangers is where you START with this stuff,
i think, since Carmel really has her lil mind made up that her head is "OFF LIMITS"
that instead,
you would start with YOU, Dogcrazy, touching her head, in the exact manner shown by kikopup in that video.
and once Carmel is fine with that, i mean really really a-ok with that,
then slowly have your family, or Dogster, do same exercises as you did, in same slow way,
and work your way through list of ppl that Carmel ALREADY KNOWS AND TRUSTS,
and slowly
slowly
advancing along, in slow manner, keeping an ever watchful eye for signs that Carmel is NOT liking it, such as lip licking, backing away, growls, hard eyes, yawning, etc etc.


I'm guessing, this would probably be a slow slow process, taking much time, just making BABY STEPS towards your end goal, an inch-at-a-time kinda thing.

GOOD LUCK, and Dogcrazy, do NOT beat yourself up, if Carmel makes decision, "nope, i am not going along with this."
some dogs are like that.

 

[Anneke]

Cooper does not like to be petted on the head. He accepts it when we do it, but he doesn't like it. The only time he likes it, is when I give him his head massage That is something I started to do, to get him to like being pet on the head, but he just hates it.
I leave it at this. And tell everyone, who wants to pet him, to do it under his chin.
Or even better... on his back. Just above where the tail starts. He loves to be scratched there.
He is just not a people-dog(not a dog-dog either). But this is actually part of the breed, although you wouldn't think so if you see Jinx, who loves everybody
Aussies are supposed to be reserved towards strangers and Cooper is.
Most of the time, when I explain this, people accept it and do as I say.

So Carmel isn't the only dog, who doesn't like this.

 

[dogcrazy]

So I have been practicing. Carmel loves when me and my family and Dogster touches her. Now I have to practice with strangers!

 

[tigerlily46514]

wow, Dogcrazy!! I THOUGHT IF ANYONE CAN, it might be Dogcrazy and Dogster!
Nice work!! well done!!
and WOW!!
Very impressive. And Carmel was cool with this?
See, Carmel *might* be making new associations in her lil doggie mind, about her own head being touched, ya never know.
Carmel might, or might not, be able to generalize that still-tender new growing thought in her mind, about ppl touching her head is not so bad .......to include unknown ppl touching her head.
but WOW, what a good start, Dogcrazy!!!

yes, you'll want to be real slow with unknown ppl. The steps you did so well, with Dogster and your family, etc, will have to be done even slower, even slower, i'd think, for unknown humans.
Maybe maybe it'd be best, if you branch out for ppl Carmel just casually knows, instead of total strangers next, maybe. Be sure to choose pals who know better than squeal around in Carmels face, etc, etc. choose these volunteers wisely, so they don't freak out Carmel, and so they WILL follow your step by step instructions.

Maybe, since you rocked at getting Carmel to like ppl she does know and trust to touch her head, maybe, maybe you'd also want to do same thing, with getting Carmel to be less honked off about ppl who crouch down,
or any other human behaviors that upset Carmel,
and maybe, maybe at some point, maybe attempt even getting Carmel to bring it down a few notches about ppl leaning over her as well. <---that one might be real challenge, mmmHmm.

It's fine if Carmel wants to move away if ppl lean over her, but, it'd be swell if Carmel could learn she doesn't have to react with barks, etc, if someone does lean over her, that instead, she could also just move away ----instead of bark around and all that.

for some dogs, that might not be possible, so don't set yourself up for letdown, if Carmel decides "Nope, not having it."

again, i sure don't want to see a sweet doglover like you, feel pressure or feel bad, if Carmel herself decides that is more than she can do, you know, it's not "you"!! It's the way some dogs are.
but, wow, and WOW!! really nice nice progress, Dogcrazy!! There's pro dogtrainers, and adults who've had dogs for eons, who haven't been able to get as far as you just did with Carmel, that is really really impressive!! wow, i am excited for your progress so far!!!

very very good progress. wow.

 

[tigerlily46514]

Anneke,
//He is just not a people-dog(not a dog-dog either)//

I'd bet you a bag of bullysticks chewbones, that one of those two targets, either Cooper not liking unknown dogs,
or Cooper not liking unknown humans,
could be removed entirely, i really think so.

and the other target, can always be reduced. But one of those two IS removable, i'd bet you a bag of bullystick chew bones.

BUT, either way, Cooper has a most marvelous life, probably one of the alltime luckiest dogs i've ever heard of!! with all the training, park outings, chances to run free, all the love, care, and even special car accommodations just for the dogs---- your dogs have a grand life as they are now.

 

[Anneke]

Cooper has become a lot better, lately. He's not freaking out so much when he sees another dog. And he has even been playing with a unfamiliar lab girl, yay!!!
But as for hispeople skills, well he's not that bad, but he has to get used to people. He will go up to strangers, but he doesn't like it when they immidiately start petting him. He is just a bit reserved towards them. Once he gets to know them he is fine with them, so that's why I don't worry about that. I just tell people to ignore him and let him come to them in his own time
Jinx on the other hand LOVES all people, she'll be in your lap in no time, if you let her, giving you kisses and demanding to be pet

 

[tigerlily46514]

Wow, great for Coop that he is making a new girlfriend!! Not surprising, since he is SO handsome!
I'd bet you a bag of expensive doggie puzzles, that you might find Cooper's reactivity to unknown dogs way way easier to reduce, or maybe even totally cure,
but, i'd imagine, that Cooper's ideas that unknown humans should be viewed with some suspicion/not touch Cooper, will persist for life on one level or another, for Cooper's whole life.
Just a wild guess, though.

but, like you say, Cooper already enjoys one of the best "dog life" in the world, anyway, just the way he is now. Either way, congrats on the progress Cooper is making!


The mini-schnauzer across the street is named Cooper, (they named him after their car! ) Oh, Buddy used to think that schnauzer should be exterminated, oh for sure. Big protest from Buddy that this schnauzer was being allowed to live.
Now Buddy adores Cooper and whines if he sees Cooper outside, and has to go say hello and love on Cooper. Cooper is a hyper dog, too, and very "in your face" type of personality,

and Buddy rarely likes hyper dogs, almost never. I have huge huge challenge to get Buddy to ever "like" any hyper dogs,
but, i did get Buddy to change him mind about hyper Cooper over there!! I can usually get Buddy to "like" or even love any dog i have regular access to. (usually)

 

[dogcrazy]

Thanks for the compliment Tiggerlily! Carmel is getting this in lighting speed! A lot of people are shocked how well behaved my dog is because I am 13, never had a dog and my parents hate dogs!

 

[tigerlily46514]

Dogcrazy, who knows, maybe you might a "natural" at this stuff!!! You and Dogster both.
Someday, you might be famous!

It is really really impressive, the progress you are making!! sooner or later, you might find, that sometimes, it might be
"two steps fwd, one step backward" and if so, don't give up! Happens to all of us, i think.
YOU ARE DOING GREAT!!!! I hope your parents are able to fully appreciate how impressive this progress with Carmel IS!!! I hope so!!

I'd be impressed with an adult who can do this with a dog, and if my kid did this, wow, i'd faint!
GOOD LUCK, Dogcrazy, and keep us posted!!
this is very exciting stuff!!

 

[tigerlily46514]

you know, Dogcrazy, i was just thinking about if/when you attempt to get Carmel to not react to a human leaning over her, which i *think* might be a big challenge.
but, lol, at the rate you are making progress, guess we can never say never!

but, anyway, i was thinking,
IF IF IF it turns out that Carmel can't be desensitized to a human leaning over her
there might be another option,
and maybe, you could teach Carmel to back up on cue (if you haven't already, not that hard, especially if you line up chairs so dog learns how to walk backwards in straight line)

then, you could add in cue, of you bending over, or whatever position it is that Carmel feels threatened by.
You could work on this cue= Carmel backs up. CLICK/TREAT
You could use a word, to train the backup,
then when you add in your bending you still say the cue word, and then, fade out the verbal word.


and then, have others also give Carmel the cue of them bending forward,
and have them give them give the cue even closer to Carmel,
and rewarding Carmel for calmly backing up.
when ppl lean over her. CLICK/TREAT


so that Carmel thinks "back up" when she sees a human bending over, so Carmel thinks of bending humans is a CUE.

I know, it seems that'd be working against your goal of desensitizing Carmel,
but, it's just one option if all else fails,
which seems better than Carmel getting upset and barking away when she sees someone bending over her.
and hopefully, the stranger would notice, "oh, this dog IS backing away, doesn't want me to to lean over her" kinda thing, and not chase Carmel all around.

Anyway, it might be a back-up plan (no pun intended)
to consider,
for just in case Carmel is not going to really like humans bending over her, it'd beat having Carmel get upset/barking at everyone, etc.

 

[tigerlily46514]

^and that might not even work, but who knows.

it's just a "back up plan"

 

[DaniG]

Rule #3
If a human tells you, "No, don't bring your dog over here to my dog"
BELIEVE THEM, and do NOT assure them how friendly YOUR dog is.

I can't tell you how much I wish people had the COMMON SENSE to follow that rule. It's astounding how often people will insist that your dogs should meet because "Their dog is friendly"

Duke is NOT friendly with dogs that are not Athena or Lin-Zee, and being a golden retriever is VERY deceiving. I have literally gotten to the point with someone where I had to say "No, he WILL bite your dog" and have them just give me a blank stare as their unneutered, offleash great dane CONTINUES to follow us (we keep walking forward, luckily I was with my fiancee and he hung back with Athena, who is friendly, in hopes of distracting said dane).

And, to top it off, this conversation happened WHILE DUKE WAS WEARING A MUZZLE.

 

[tigerlily46514]

WOW, even a muzzle, and the ppl still didn't get it.
wow.
i soooooooooooo understand, exactly, what you are saying. MmHmmm, do i ever.
Yeah, for me, i find saying "My dog BITES" is most effective, of all the remarks i have tried, to get humans with dogs to stop approaching us.

"MY dog has fleas really bad" didn't work, as i once got "don't worry, my dog is wearing his flea collar/is on Revolution pill," etc. so i went back to calmly announcing (since my dog is also listening to my tone of voice) "My dog BITES" and use a worried face.