Cris And Mini Aussie Named Valentine

[tigerlily46514]

but do hang in there, Chris, i KNOW you can solve this, i know it!
It might take a few various methods or attempts to find best way to solve it,
but i KNOW this is 100% sovlable,
and someday,
you will laff about it all,
as YOU help some newcomer who writes, "My dog is chewing on his leash"!!

and do realize, V can't help what she is doing, YET.
She is doing the best she can with the understanding and limited baby level of coping skills she possesses so far. so far, this is all she knows to do, so far. But she's a smart lil pup, and she will develop new way to be, with your help.
YOU WILL GET THERE!! DON'T GIVE UP!!

 

[tigerlily46514]

LOLZ, we are posting at same time. i've missed a few of your posts, sorry!!

The pick up and go home seems okay to me. But it won't teach Valentine what you DO want her to do instead.
and sooner or later, she'll be too heavy to carry home...
but who knows, maybe V will figure it out that way, not sure.

on other hand, V may see getting off that leash as a "reward" for her biting it....???

 

[CrisM]

Thanks. We're working on Leave It. Once you gave me a video of Kikopup's I've been watching them a lot. Valentine is much better at Drop It than Leave It so far. I thought Drop It might make sense because the leash is in her mouth.

I know she gets enough exercise because I am constantly wearing her out to the point that she stops to lay down and naps. I make sure she has running and playing time in the morning and the evening. Plus she gets to jump and run and play with the dogs at day care, with our neighbor dogs, and with her parents. We also play a lot of fetch and recall games. I can't see how it could be an energy problem. I wish it was, that would make it so much simpler to fix.

 

[CrisM]

Lol. We are posting at the same time!

When I make her come back inside she pulls a little and tries to stay outside. If she was happy to come home then I would think it was a reward, but if she could prop her little legs on the door frame to keep from coming inside again, she would.

 

[tigerlily46514]

Guess all dogs are unique, cuz my dog found "drop it" harder to learn, than "leave it", which he got instantly:
http://www.dogtrickacademy.com/members/forums/threads/leave-it.4310/#post-31264

"Leave it" is one of the very few tricks or cues, that i did not much use the clicker, because i was not entirely sure how to, as i felt the click IS a "release" word...so instead, i mostly used praise and treats with no click. that's just me and my lack of skill on clicking, so that every once in a blue moon, i can't figure how exactly when to click, so in those situations, i skip the click. It's rare but sometimes i just can't nail the timing.

 

[tigerlily46514]

So Chris, besides trying to desensitize V to the leash, outdoors,
or desensitize V to the leash while she is wearing it, as per Kikopup videos above,
maybe,
maybe,
everytime V bites leash, she has to sit down and recalm. I wonder if that would help. I see that you have tried this, but then end up taking V back home.
and maybe that is best thing, not sure.

but maybe, every biting episode, V has to pull over and re-calm. Yes, it'd probably take you 30 minutes to make it to the corner and back, but maybe...lol, bring one of those golfing chairs that folds up into a pole for your own self, ha ha

hmmmmmm.. this is trickier than i thought...

here's one other thing to consider trying:

 

[tigerlily46514]

Not sure what you are using for treats, but maybe Valentine might enjoy a change of treats now and then? Keep all treats like size of a raisen, and for moments you are thrilled with Valentine's progress/for jackpots--------- instead of giving one large treat, give many small treats, one after the other, with lavish praise, as well.

This recipe below, is economical, healthy, and super easy to make, and dogs go crazy for these:

http://www.dogtrickacademy.com/members/forums/threads/liver-cookies.4061/

 

[Amateur]

Sounds like my Zoe ( Border collie)... I eventually came to the conclusion it was frustration.
She would also turn on me if she got frustrated and go after my pant leg or even attack Hank.
The best I could do was to stop and wait ask her to sit and wait until calm ...
I stopped "treating her" on walks as she demanded treats if they didn't come fast enough for her liking. We began to take the stand that she must sit and calm because that's what she is suppose to do, not just because there's a treat.

Also when she would play tuggy with the leash I would run my hand up the leash to gain control of it and so she had no access to it at all, then just hold on to her collar behind her head until she calmed -- then waited a bit more. Dragging her back home with the leash in her mouth was too much fun for her, and only rewarded the behaviour.

We had a head harness too and sometimes would dangle it on her left side or between her legs to make it less accessable -- but be careful you arent jerking it hard enough to hurt her neck.

We also changed harnesses from the gentle leader to the Halti -- it helped to stop her pulling as well.

If she would walk holding something in her mouth might help too...

 

[tigerlily46514]

Amateur, those sounds like great ideas to me! I knew, sooner or later, more and more ppl who had actually dealt with this problem, will be along! YAY!

But re, the head halters, of any kind, no one can pull on those, but only gently lead the dog. Pulling the dog is not necessary, AT ALL, the dog has no choice but to follow you. Pulling could wrench their neck.

The head-halter websites have videos on how to get dog to "like" the head halter, which is wayyy trickier than you'd think by watching their videos. way trickier.
Repeat each step in the "how to" video, over and over, to try for best possible result.

For first walks in head-halter, if you do decide to use one, keep first walk super short. It can be quite a trick to get a dog to accept a head halter, some dogs shut down completely and refuse to walk at all in head halters, so it's time well invested to try to get your dog to accept the head halter and get off on good first impression.

some of these head halters, you should keep re-checking the fit during the walk, as well.

 

[Amateur]

re: the head halters ... I wasnt the one doing the pulling ! she ignored all the rules with head halters.- she even wore a little patch on her nose. She was like a Honey badger - she just didnt care.

Anyhow at one year old she now has stopped pulling and has become a much different dog. The monster crazy biter tasmanian devil has finally become a cuddly wonderful treasure -- even sleeping with the cats ! She has he moments but dont give up - there really is a better behaved dog just around the corner !

 

[Dogster]

My dog had the same problem for leash biting. If I told her no on a walk, she'd start barking and growling at me. I wouldn't call it agressive though. As long as she's not trying to hurt you or if she's not sending any warning signs, you're fine. I think Valentine just doesn't like the leash or she thinks it's a toy. By the way, my dog got over it in about a month.

 

[Amateur]

I just went back to skim more of this thread and just want to say probably the best thing I did was to calm her by holding the collar so the leash was not involved at all. She just did not like being pulled by the leash.
Any forceful action got an equally forceful action back (i.e. aggression begets aggression) but a firm hold on the collar was neutral. And progressing with the walk only after waiting a time until after clam was achieved was helpful. She may look calm but was she -- make sure. Mine would eventually lay down ! ok that was calm !

 

[CrisM]

Thanks guys. I'm going to keep working with her. I'll try the stop/sit/calm down thing and see how it goes. I can tell that a lot of it is frustration. She wants to be able to run around wherever and can't because we keep turning around every time she really goes after something she thinks is fun.

I'm wondering if it's confusing to her to have so much off-leash time with me running around outside (in a fenced-in area) and then to have only twice a day on a leash for really short periods of time.

I'm going to stick with the treats for now. I think I might try Kikopup's calling her to me when she pulls and treating her. That may be easier for her to deal with than the u-turns because she's making the choice to come back to me.

But really, thank you guys so much for continuing to help me out with this problem. I really appreciate all the suggestions and advice.

 

[tigerlily46514]

SUCH GREAT POSTS ABOVE!!

Yes, my dog pulled, like a crazy boy, and trying out kikopup idea to have HIM choose to return to me, helped my dog a LOT. *HE* was participating in choosing to stop pulling, and to return to me. It's like his brain "reset" or something, everytime he did that.

yes, yes, sometimes, i'd have to stand there, waiting...waiting for him to make up his mind, "okayy i WILL return to mom, instead of pull on this leash...all right.."
but, he always returned to me.

*that* helped my dog learn to stop pulling, evne more than standing like a tree silently, even more than doing U-turns, was, asking my dog to choose to return to me. He got better and better at that.
but my dog never did bite his leash, though, so i have no idea on that...but, maybe solving the pulling issue, will also, in turn, help reduce his urge to bite the leash??

 

[CrisM]

That's sort of what I'm thinking. Or hoping, at least. If there's no frustration than there shouldn't be barrier aggression. Fingers crossed!

 

[tigerlily46514]

YOU CAN DO IT!! For many dogs, loose leash walking takes way longer than "sit" or other cues, much longer.
also, for *my* quirky dog,
the extenda-leash totally ruined his ability to get the hang of loose leash walking. Once i switched to plain ol leash, he got idea much faster, for whatever reason. Before, i'd thought, "If i lock the extenda leash in short length, my dog will understand he is now on shorter length and not pull to get that other 20 feet of leash ...."
but, *my* dog had trouble with that concept, that the extenda-leash could stay short no matter what....so i hid that leash, and just used only a cloth leash.<---THAT also helped my dog a lot.

Do watch that kikopup video back on page one, called "loose leash walking", shows her calling her pulling dog to choose to return to her.
GOOD LUCK!!

 

[sara]

I had to think outside the box with Buck, my current foster deaf Border Collie... TALK ABOUT PULING!!!!!!!!!

This is what I decided to work with... AMAZING PRODUCT!!!!!!!

This would make it harder for your pup to go after the leash as well! Works like a dream with Buck! I'll be trying it with Oliver too!

 

[tigerlily46514]

wow, Sara, that head-halter does look a lil different than other head-halters.
does the part under his chin/jaw pull at all onto the front of his neck under his chin?

 

[sara]

No it doesn't at all. though it looks like it could, not properly fitted. It puts pressure on the bridge of his nose and behind his head. Buck is walking like a dream now!!!

 

[CrisM]

I may have to get one of those.

But I do have success to report! Valentine and I had a mostly pleasant walk where I treated her for good walking and when she pulled I called her to me and treated her for coming. She got a lot of treats! The only time she didn't get a treat was when I let her "go sniff" and while she was pulling.

She only had one meltdown at about 16 minutes in. The leash had gotten wrapped around one of her legs and she freaked out on it before I could get it untangled. Once she was free of it, she had a moment of growling and attacking it before she calmed down.

The rest of the walk she did fine. There was a lot of pulling, but there was also a lot of coming back to me and she started to equate me stopping with my left hand having a treat. I wanted to see if the success could go on after her previous 20-minute limit. I'm happy to say we had a pretty successful 23-minute walk and ended it while she was still in a good mood.