Help Please With Backing

[MaryK]

Another day, another unsuccessful attempt to get Ra Kismet to back.

So far have tried using my hands on his sides - no luck - he gives me pee. Great and we do need that for his routine, but also need back. Or he just sits down plunk, never to move again!

Getting him into a small area where any dog would back - again didn't work - he's very creative but back no way! He gives me right up (on hind legs) sit pretty, fall on his back in a screwed up heap (not something I want as he may hurt himself) or just an amazed look as if to say 'why are you 'crowding' me Mom?'

Even tried using his soccer ball. Rolled it up to him, rather silly of me I guess, but I was getting desperate. All that did of course was set him off playing - but at least it got him of his bot which I thought had grown roots into the ground!

Even Zeus, not a trick orientated dog at all, can do back, both walking and wiggling back on his bot! So I rather expected Ra Kismet to find it easy Not the case, seems back just doesn't enter into his vocabulary!

Help!!!!! We need it as in one part of his chorrie he needs to back away, not sit pluncked down!

 

[Dogster]

How about holding a treat that he really loves, putting it by his nose, (so he will be sniffing and licking your hand), then moving forward?? Don't know if you've tried this already, but it's the only thing I can come up with right now.

 

[Dlilly]

I had trouble teaching Shiloh bow for a long time. I tried every method, and nothing worked. I gave up teaching her bow… A month later I decided to try again, and she actually understood it! Maybe you should take a break and let yourself calm down? I always do this with tricks I have trouble with, and it usually works.

 

[Adrianna & Calvin]

This might help:

 

[jackienmutts]

Great video! That's very similar to how we learned 'back up' - but we had the advantage of doing it (well, beginning to learn it, anyway) in freestyle class, and had the use of working between xpens the same way she used the crates (made a little channel but closed it into a 'v' at the end - then we improvised at home, I think I used the coffee table and couch and blocked the end (hard to remember now). Start with a very short distance (like the crate distance) and if needed, you can increase the distance. He'll get it, don't worry. You may want to do as Dlilly suggested tho, and give him a couple days off from this one trick tho - cuz now he (and you!) are kind of "back up" sensitive. Relax and work on other stuff for a couple days, then try again, all fresh. I bet he gets it!

 

[MaryK]

How about holding a treat that he really loves, putting it by his nose, (so he will be sniffing and licking your hand), then moving forward?? Don't know if you've tried this already, but it's the only thing I can come up with right now.

Cheese will be on the menu! Will try that thanks Dogster. It hasn't worked with his normal treats, which surprised me, as he's a VERY food orientated dog.

 

[MaryK]

This might help:

Thank you it sure will, never thought of doing that at all!!!!! I didn't use the leaning over though, as I don't like that, so glad I didn't. Looks like I raid the cheese for the special treat

 

[MaryK]

I had trouble teaching Shiloh bow for a long time. I tried every method, and nothing worked. I gave up teaching her bow… A month later I decided to try again, and she actually understood it! Maybe you should take a break and let yourself calm down? I always do this with tricks I have trouble with, and it usually works.

You're right Dlily, it's worked in the past with taking a break "are you shy" comes instantly to mind. Will do that, there's no rush!!!!!!!

 

[MaryK]

Great video! That's very similar to how we learned 'back up' - but we had the advantage of doing it (well, beginning to learn it, anyway) in freestyle class, and had the use of working between xpens the same way she used the crates (made a little channel but closed it into a 'v' at the end - then we improvised at home, I think I used the coffee table and couch and blocked the end (hard to remember now). Start with a very short distance (like the crate distance) and if needed, you can increase the distance. He'll get it, don't worry. You may want to do as Dlilly suggested tho, and give him a couple days off from this one trick tho - cuz now he (and you!) are kind of "back up" sensitive. Relax and work on other stuff for a couple days, then try again, all fresh. I bet he gets it!

Isn't it a great vid, will use that for Rakins.

Can find plenty to create the right blocks etc.

Will do, take a break, we are as you say a bit 'back up' sensitive. Poor chap I always feel so bad when I've goofed, he's so smart and willing to learn. Key word Relax!!!!!!!!

Yes, I have faith in the boy too, he WILL get it LOL in his time We have masses to work on, perfecting 'pee' and he's already starting with cop-cop. Jackie, reminds me, went through the old threads, found heaps of good ones but nothing so far on cop-cop. At present he's stands well between my legs (no fear at all) and all I'm doing is asking for him to put his paw on one foot. Only just started yesterday and so far so good.

Thank you for all the help everyone

 

[SD&B]

In our trick class, we learned something similar to the video. We had two long objects or one long object against a wall. (We had lattice in a frame. Ours were maybe 10 feet long.) We place the objects so that they formed a narrow v and met at the end. You get the dog into the point of the v and then call him. He has to back up in order to get out. Lots of c/t's. Of course, you will have to fade the aids, but that helps the dog get the idea and it also helps them go straight.

I like the suggestion of taking off a little bit of time and then trying again.

 

[xena98]

I had put a couple of cages near each other and put her in there so she couldnt go anywhere had some food next to her nose and soon she made a movement clicked and fed her dont know if that makes any sense lol

 

[MaryK]

Thank you SD$B and Xena, I'm going to leave it for a little while, then will put into practice everything suggested here. Can see I need to make something up which will keep him 'on the straight and narrow' The break from the trick will give me a chance to work out what, have crates but am thinking he just may try to jump over them. He's a darned good jumper.

 

[xena98]

i just did it in the garage and she had nowhere to go and also another thing you can do is put the food between the legs she has to go backwards she cant jump cause the head is on the ground lol and where the cages or whatever you use to make a channel she cant turn around and you are doing it quickly that she doesnt realize it lol
I hope this is making sense lol

 

[648117]

I taught Holly 'back' using two objects and then just one and now none (she's very good at this trick).

But I've thought of another way to teach:

Our cavalier were never really taught any tricks but they did know 'back' because everytime we came home they would race to the front door so we would say 'back' as we opened the door and the dogs sort of just learnt that 'back' means backup so the door can be opened. So they learnt this trick themselves without any treats at all! (although I guess us coming home was a rewards)

 

[MaryK]

i just did it in the garage and she had nowhere to go and also another thing you can do is put the food between the legs she has to go backwards she cant jump cause the head is on the ground lol and where the cages or whatever you use to make a channel she cant turn around and you are doing it quickly that she doesnt realize it lol
I hope this is making sense lol

We haven't a garage but you've given me an idea. When the car's in the carport there's very little space between the passenger side and the wall (I know I have to squeeze in) so will use that space.

Also, like the tip to put a treat between his legs - if that doesn't get his attention NOTHING will!!!!!!! He's very treat/food orientated. Thanks a lot, we'll get there will all the help everyone is so kind to offer.

 

[MaryK]

I taught Holly 'back' using two objects and then just one and now none (she's very good at this trick).

But I've thought of another way to teach:

Our cavalier were never really taught any tricks but they did know 'back' because everytime we came home they would race to the front door so we would say 'back' as we opened the door and the dogs sort of just learnt that 'back' means backup so the door can be opened. So they learnt this trick themselves without any treats at all! (although I guess us coming home was a rewards)

You've reminded me, that's how Zeus learned 'back'. He's not into tricks, just loves basic obedience, heel work etc. but after that prefers to applaud from the side lines.

Will try 'capture' back with Ra Kismet when I come home. The clicker/treat bag are right by the door too!

Will also try the two objects as well.

Taking a short break from back just at present, but will start again soon.

Thank you.

 

[curls139]

Hi Mary K - going to teach Russ this one as it seems deceptively simple the way I've heard ...no need for objects to guide

1. Get your feet wide enough so Ra can step throgh them. Put a treat in between your heels and let him get it (don't place it too far back or he will go through your legs). He is likely to step back so he can look at your hands or face to see where the next treat is coming from.

2. As soon as he steps back click and treat with a treat placed between your feet. Repeat above, this time when he reverses to the same place he just did, expecting another treat, withold the click. When no click comes he'll probably take another step or two backwards. Click when he does this and reward between your feet. Then just keep witholding and increasing the number of steps, adding the command and phasing out the treats.

Does that make sense?

 

[MaryK]

Makes sense Curls, will give it a try. Will let you all know how I go. Sure will be easier without having to use objects, as I have very limited space, not so good for training but I have to make the best of it for now.

I'm sure Russ will get it very quickly He's such a smart, darling little boy

 

[MaryK]

Yesterday, when out walking on loose lead, I 'backed' to talk to someone and Ra Kismet also BACKED - naturally 'back' click/treat big praise 'aren't you the smartest doggy' etc. He was right alongside of me at that point, no interesting smells to do his 'Sherlock Home' stuff (that requires his total concentration) Not sure if this is going to help when we are 'formally' training but hey it's a start!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Will when working on heel work, see if he again 'does it naturally' Jackie made a very good point that we are both 'back sensitive', so am not going to rush or push the issue. Just do it 'naturally' and well, we'll see. If that doesn't happen, will just give it a few more days and try all the suggestions everyone has been so kind to give to me

 

[xena98]

well done. Hopefully he will do it again seems like once they do it once it seems to come again lol