A Can Of Air? For Barking In The Car?

[tigerlily46514]

Has anyone used one of these cans of air? It's called "Pet Corrector" and it is a can of air, that when pushed, lets out a hissss noise. I've always been 'positive only', and this would be closest i get to 'not positive', but, it says Victoria Stillwell on "It's Me or The Dog" show used one. (not entirely certain that is true).

http://www.google.com/products/catalog?q=pet corrector&rls=com.microsoft:en-us:IE-SearchBox&oe=UTF-8&rlz=1I7ADRA_en&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=shop&cid=7263596056311718732&sa=X&ei=nq6CTuyNB4PEgAeb44VW&ved=0CFsQ8wIwAA#

My plan is, to use this *ONLY* in the car when my dog-aggressive dog Buddy barks at 'enemy' dogs out the window. I was reading an old thread i'd posted on this same problem, and i have been able to get Buddy used to most dogs ON THE GROUND.
He HAS been pretty successfully desensitized to most dogs, he is usually pretty good when his feet are on the earth.
On a walk----- in our yard------ anywhere else, i can easily prevent, interrupt or stop his barking, and prevnet a reaction if he is honked off about a dog coming along.
He's usually pretty cool on walks now, has been able to walk by even barking dogs more often than not. On the ground, he is pretty darn good now. Often, he is flat out amazing.

but,
in the car,
i am driving,
and usually can not pull over to do anything at all,
and definitly can not pull over *immediately*.

Buddy even knows the cue "shhhh" but, it doesn't work inside of the car once he's started into a reaction at a dog....anywhere else, yes! but in the car, nope.

also, his 'dad' drives him in the car, and so whatever plan i come up with, has to be something super-easy, as no one is going to give my guy any awards for dog training, ha ha, has to be *simple* plan.

For Buddy,
being allowed to bark away even once in the car, totally reinforces the whole ongoing issue.

Buddy barks at, every dog as we drive by, he barks at it, and it's over.
(HE probably thinks the dog is now 'gone' cuz he barked at it...lol)

but sometimes,
if a dog is in a car next to our car,
or at stoplights,
or trains,
in those type of situations, Buddy can escalate to very ugly full-on hyper barkfest reaction, and gets himself so so so worked up, it's sad.

It's the *only* time Buddy gets a chance to have his full-on, screaming reaction, is in the car. I strongly feel *this* IS a cog against his otherwise great progress.

BUDDY EVEN BARKS AT HIS OWN BEST DOGGIE PALS when he is inside the car, it's a "consequence-free zone to my dog, he can bark away, no fear of reprisal from the other dog, and he's alone back there)

DOES ANYONE HAS ANY IDEAS ON HOW
TO STOP A DOG FROM BARKING INSIDE OF A CAR??

I'm trying to not breakdown and put a crate in the SUV, BUT a crate won't fit into my car.

Buddy loves sticking his head out of the window, ( i roll up the windows if he barks)
and otherwise, SO ENJOYS a "road trip", he's NOT nervous to be in the car at all. It's not that, it's dog-aggression.

I'm also pretty sure, my guy won't go along with consistently putting the dog in a seatbelt for dogs, but, i've thought about getting a dog seatbelt, but Buddy is tall enough that he would still be able to see and bark at dogs out the windows, even from a seatbelt.

but, i'm getting desparate to find a solution to the barking in the car. I've even seriously toyed with the idea of a bark-collar
for in the car ONLY----->it'd give instant 'correction', every time, even my guy could use it, seemed like i'd bend on this one thing, from 'positive only'.............. til i looked at one, and felt kinda sick at the whole idea.
so.......
I thought i might try a can of air.
Don't laff, it seems to have good reviews...?

I've also seen doggie "blindfolds" of a type, sort of a mesh deal, that blur up the dog's ability to see other dogs, thus, reducing the chance he'd bark at one, since he can't see it clearly.....Do these make a dog feel like i feel when i first get new eyeglasses??

HAS ANYONE USED A 'PET CORRECTOR' CAN OF AIR?

OR

ONE OF THOSE MESH - BLINDFOLD DEALS?

Has anyone with a dog-aggressive dog been able to use a "thunder shirt"** to stop a dog-aggressive dog from barking at dogs from inside of a car??

(**Buddy IS otherwise calm in the car, it's not the car, it's the sight of an enemy dog that he can yell at from within the safety of his car)

or, DOES ANYONE HAVE ANY IDEAS? specifically for inside of a car?? He's now cool enough on the ground, just inside the car,
i'm still lost on how to stop this....

 

[laramie]

I have seen the episode of It's Me or the Dog where she uses the can of air. It was aimed at a little pom who freaked out at a person or a dog, don't really remember. The can of air that you are looking at is the same thing as the cans of air that you use to clean your keyboard. So if you do decide this is what you want to use, it might be cheaper to go to walmart and but the stuff for your computer.

Victoria Stilwell also has a few episodes that deal with dogs barking at other dogs in the car. This method will take some time and a partner who will drive you and your dog. Start by blocking off the windows so he can't see anything outside of the car. If possible, have a doggie friend outside of the car with the windows blocked. Take down one of the pieces of paper to let him see the dog, but the second he barks put it back up. Continue to do this until he realizes that if he barks he doesn't get to see anything. I don't know if it would be best for you to try this parked first or if you want to start it when you're driving.

As for the seat belt, I very strongly recommend one. Not to keep him from barking, but to keep him safe. Chances are, you're not going to get into an accident with him in the car, but if that did happen you wouldn't want him flying out of the window and being killed. A year or two ago I saw a rottie thrown out of the back of a truck when the driver went around a curve. I nearly hit the car my boyfriend and I were in and I remember looking back just at it hit the ground and seeing it bounce when it hit. Luckily it was okay, but since then I've never taken my dogs anywhere without their seat belts. The one I got was the ASPCA one from walmart and it has an adjustable strap that connects the harness to the car so you can allow him to lay down or stand, and even hang his head out of the window. Personally I've switched the harnesses it came with for the ones I normally use with them because they were a little too big.

 

[Lburton]

Yes - I would recommend reading up on VS's site, www.positively.com . She also has a great blog on there!

 

[Anneke]

I have the petcorrector and I have used it. It does work, but.... I think it will be hard to use it the right way when you are driving the car... Since you do have to aim it at the dog, especially the first couple of times. You want to snap him out of his behaviour, and the sound, from a distance, will probably not be enough.
I had to put the corector right up, near Jinx her ear to get the desired reaction. Not sprayed the air into her ear, mind you, but to make the sound really loud.
As soon as she got that the sound means business, I could start using it from a distance.
Maybe you could ask someone to walk by your car, while you are parked at the sidewalk, so you can focus on Buddy untill he gets it?

 

[laramie]

Fairley would bark and whine in her crate at night and my boyfriend's dad would get pissed, so we tried startling her with an airhorn (we didn't use it anywhere close to her so it didn't hurt her ears) and after two times of using it, she would get quiet if we even picked it up and showed it to her. Thankfully we don't have to use it anymore, but it's the same concept with the can of air. It's meant to just get the dog's attention.

 

[Jean Cote]

I'd be careful using the can of air, if it is tilted in any way you may be spraying the contents of the can which is extremely cold. And if you happen to shake it too it might get some of that stuff out also.

 

[APDT trainer]

FYI - you do NOT spray Pet Corrector at the dog. It's not the feeling of air that deters the dog, it's the sound of the blast that has the effect (seriously, you really think blowing on a dog is going to be aversive enough to have any affect - and YES, a correction must be aversive in order to be effective [NOT positive punishment, however!] You can try working with non-punishing, non-aversive stimuli such as strengthening the verbal correction - research Ian Dunbar for tips - but it will take a lot of patience, time & practice outside of the car & then slowly introducing it in the car once the verbal correction is solidified AND effective more than 90% of the time. However, until he has it perfected at 90% of the time, there's no way to manage the situation when he's in the car unless you seriously block his - and in turn, your own - view of anything & everything on the road while building up the strength of the verbal correction outside of the car).

With Pet Corrector, it's the actual hissing sound that causes the dog to redirect. Once the dog responds to the sound, eventually all you need to do is make a hiss sound yourself & the dog "gets it" with no continued need for Pet Corrector. Also, it is NOT cold at all - it is merely a blast of compressed air. Although it contains HFC-134a which is one of a series of fluorocarbon alternatives that is technically classified as a refrigerant, I have sprayed Pet Corrector directly into my own face (if I won't do it to myself there's no bloody way I'd use it on a dog!) and it is not cold at all. Be aware that with any correction, you MUST always give the dog an alternate behavior - never tell a dog "No, that's wrong" when you should be saying, "No, that's wrong... and here's what you should do instead."

I am a R+ trainer, I loathe outdated methods like those of Cesar Milan & the old-school compulsion mindset. I have personally met both Cesar & Victoria, and there's no comparison - Stilwell is the one to watch. So while I never use positive punishment, when necessary I will use Pet Corrector & fade out its use.

NOTE: If your dog is fearful DO NOT - I repeat DO NOT - use Pet Corrector. It can really scare the bejeezus out of a soft dog. Again, if you use it in the car, no need (and there's never a need) to spray it at your dog. The sound enough, especially in such an enclosed place, should be aversive enough. Just remember, be prepared to ask your dog for an acceptable alternate behavior so the dog knows what to do instead. You may have to be creative in a car since the easiest go-to alternate behavior, sit, will not suffice in a car. You may want to practice targeting so that you use the Pet Corrector then provide your hand for him to target. When he targets your hand (or other suitable alternate behavior that you choose) make sure you are prepared to give him a reward, be it treats or a toy depending upon what motivates him. Good luck!

 

[tigerlily46514]

THANKS FOR ALL THE HELP! MUCH APPRECIATED!
.
.
.
//"You can try working with non-punishing, non-aversive stimuli such as strengthening the verbal correction - research Ian Dunbar for tips - but it will take a lot of patience, time & practice outside of the car & then slowly introducing it in the car once the verbal correction is solidified AND effective more than 90% of the time"//
.
Does that mean using the can of air outside the car first? Like practice using it outside the car first?
.
Cuz Buddy already has a solid "shhhhh" which works great....well anywhere but IN the car...

 

[running_dog]

"Down" could be a good alternate behaviour in the car. Most dogs can't see anything besides sky if they lie down in the car. I think you said before that Buddy can't escalate when he's in a down?

 

[tigerlily46514]

so i'm thinking, i should practice with the can of air, and get a default 'down' whenever he hears the can of air? and then, move to inside the car?
i *wonder* if Buddy becoming accustomed to the can of air, will remove the 'startle' factor from hearing it...and so it will then be ineffective to 'surpirse' him out of his barkfest in the car.............not sure.
i am being very careful in how i approach this, as i do feel this is one of my last options left...

 

[APDT trainer]

I agree that if you have tried every other way you can, it is worth a shot. Definitely use it outside the car first because you don't want to continue with it if one of two things happen: (1) If your dog cowers in fear & continues to shake or wants to hide after you use it the first time, do not continue using it. Your dog is too fearful of the sound & you never want to scare or flood a soft dog into compliance. The worst thing ever, and another reason you don't aim it at the dog. (2) There's a chance your dog might not care at all about the sound one iota; I have seen this with Boxers, Bulldogs & some other bully breeds, Great Danes but any dog may be either non-fazed or interested in the can of air. On those dogs, it's useless!

If your dog is just startled by the sound & recovers nicely, it should work great for you.

If you use it correctly, he won't get immune to it. The reason why is because you should be using it as a temporary corrector. If you use it correctly & redirect him once he starts, then once you have got his attention, ask for a down, then IMMEDIATELY reward & praise. You must ALWAYS remember to make it rewarding & fun for your dog rather than simply spraying the air, asking for the down, then not doing anything to let him know he performed the right behavior. If you do this correctly, you won't continue to need the air spray - you simply make a hissing sound with your voice. He will have learned what the sound means. Another option is you could add a cue a millisecond before you spray the air, such as "chill!" & he will learn to associate the cue word with the air immediately following. You can then fade out the use of the air (by using it every time at first, then one out of every two times you need to redirect him, then fade to once every three times, etc.) & when he hears you say "chill!" he will anticipate the spray & immediately cease the behavior.

Finally please always set your dog up to succeed. For example, you're going to want to see how he reacts to the pet corrector, but you never want to set up a situation which will cause him to react just for the sake of having you correct him. Wait until he does something you want to redirect before you even test the spray on him. It's old school compulsion minded training where the owner sets the dog up to fail then corrects him. What you want to do is use the can as sparingly as possible, fade out it's use & remember to ALWAYS reward him with treats, praise, a toy, whatever motivates him once he performs correctly. Dogs want to continue to do what is rewarding & fun for them, so make training fun rather than merely wait for him to do things wrong & only correct him. If you do the latter, he's not going to be a very well adjusted dog.

And I agree with running_dog that 'down' would be an ideal behavior.

 

[tigerlily46514]

THANK YOU all for great help! I feel ready to start now, i did not want to make a wrong move, as like i said, getting a VERY focused, dog-aggressive dog to NOT react, is a task in and of itself, (which i *CAN* do on the ground)
and trying to do so,
while driving a car,
is near impossible,
so i didn't want to proceed in wrong way.
I feel lucky, as overall, my dog is not a fearful dog, and the fears he did have, i was able to help him get past, fear is not his default reaction, so that may help him get the most benefit from this can of air. KEEP YOUR FINGERS CROSSED!

lol, doncha know, due to some vehicle swapping and lifestyle changes, NOW that i AM ready to begin training with the can of air, NOW i am not in the car nearly as often, rofl....my life is a Seinfeld tv episode, ha ha.

 

[APDT trainer]

LOL, those Seinfeld/Curb moments make life fun though!

Good luck with the training, and please update here how it's going once you begin.
Paws crossed for you and your doglet!

 

[APDT trainer]

THANK YOU all for great help! I feel ready to start now, i did not want to make a wrong move, as like i said, getting a VERY focused, dog-aggressive dog to NOT react, is a task in and of itself, (which i *CAN* do on the ground)
and trying to do so,
while driving a car,
is near impossible,
so i didn't want to proceed in wrong way.
I feel lucky, as overall, my dog is not a fearful dog, and the fears he did have, i was able to help him get past, fear is not his default reaction, so that may help him get the most benefit from this can of air. KEEP YOUR FINGERS CROSSED!

lol, doncha know, due to some vehicle swapping and lifestyle changes, NOW that i AM ready to begin training with the can of air, NOW i am not in the car nearly as often, rofl....my life is a Seinfeld tv episode, ha ha.

Any updates on the training?

 

[tigerlily46514]

Well, i rarely have Buddy in the car for long time now. I wish i had posted this earlier in the year, when i was driving Buddy around daily back then.

I will try this again in the summer, though.
On the ground, on a walk, in my yard, etc, i've got it, i can get him to stop barking,
but in the car,
with dogs not outdoors as much this time of year, (we've already got snow)
i have trouble finding dogs outdoors to work on this with him.

but next summer, help me remember to work on this!!